2001 Yukon XL California Emissions

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NMPastor

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I just bought a 2001 Yukon XL that was first titled in California. About 700 into ownership it showed the "Service Engine Soon" light. I had the codes read and it threw off "P0420," a cat converter code. I don't have any doubts about the goodwill of the dealer in the sale.

I had the codes reset and the light came back on within 10 miles.

Any thoughts?

Do I just replace the converters? Is it a DIY job? If I use 49-state converters on a California vehicle...will it continue to throw off the code because of the sensor and computer settings? Is there something else I need to be thinking about?

Thanks for your wisdom.
 

Sub

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You don't state what state you are in now. Let's say you are in New Mexico, since your user name says NMpastor.

The rules of the state of registration will prevail. If you were in California, you would not be able to register the vehicle until the check engine light issue was resolved.

The P0420 code is described by GM as "Catalyst System Low Efficiency".

New catalytic converters used to be expensive. From $500.00 to $1,000.00 each. My Yukon XL has 3 of them. However, I've looked up catalytic converters online just now, and found them to be from $74.00 to $300.00. I'm not sure why those are so cheap, given the cost of the precious metal catalyst surely has not come down in price.

The only explanation I can come up with is China. From peripheral experience there, they find ways to cut costs that have nothing to do with cheap labor (as many parts are made by machines and robots, not people). The secret is cheateaned materials. So, I don't know how long the cheap catalysts will last before failing the sensors again.

In California, emissions equipment has to last for 10 years. It is not unreasonable for a 12 year old vehicle to experience a failure at this point, but what you don't want to be doing is replacing catalysts every other year.

Is it a DIY job? It depends. Do you weld? Do you have a way to lift and securely support your Yukon to cut out and reweld exhaust system components? Do you have a way to test each of the three catalysts to determine which converter is plugged?

Is there an O2 sensor code in the PCM history? Have you checked the integrity of the wiring harnesses and connectors to each converter?
 
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NMPastor

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More on the P0420

Yes, I am in New Mexico.

I'm not up to the welding part. Looking at Alldata it appears to only have two catalysts, as opposed to three.

There are market-available universal (weld-in) catalysts, and pipe-connected (bolt-in pipe) catalysts. I'm not up to the welding. However, I think I could get the beast up on stands and get the 'Y' out and replace it. Since it's a 2001 and 4WD, the tranny support apparently does not have to come out to do that.

No I have not checked the sensors, wiring, etc. Is there a way to replace sensors before just replacing them?

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

And, yes, the CARB catalysts are pricey. maybe not different than the others, but they have been through the CARB certification process.

Is there anywhere, BTW, that describes the differences between the CA and non-CA vehicles?
 

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Well, at least you only have two catalysts to think about. Mine has three. I hope they last, because I would be required to buy the CARB ones with the Executive Order registration number (E.O.). That is one of the main differences between CA and non-CA cats. The paperwork. It costs money for that paperwork, because of the component testing involved to certifiy that paperwork. The physical verification process that validates the part will function to the specifications claimed is charged to the company who applies for the EO number. Big bucks.

You asked "is there a way to replace sensors before just replacing them." The answer is NO. :argue: (these smiley heads are the tech and the service manager arguing about "Did you replace the sensor first before just replacing the sensor?") LOL!

All kidding aside, since you have access to AllData, presumably there are diagnostic subroutines you can follow to determine whether or not a sensor needs replacing.
 
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NMPastor

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In California?

Sub,

I assume you would be required to purchase the CARB catalysts because you are in California?

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 AM ----------

Alldata does not show a routine for testing sensors in the routine for this code...at least as far as I can tell. The take you more or less straight to 'replace cat.'
 

Sub

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What engine do you have?

---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 AM ----------

To answer your question... I would get the CARB certified catalytic converter no matter where I lived. Specifically, I'd get the original equipment part. The reason being, the OEM catalytic converters are 3-way catalysts that reduce hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and oxides of nitrogen. I would want the converter that has the catalysts to control all three types of pollution.

Every time I admire a 1960's muscle car, such as this beautiful 1961 Corvette convertible I was gawking at yesterday, I am reminded how horrible out air would be if emissions equipment were not required. When that 61 Vette pulled away from the stop light, I about died. Not from how fast it took off, but from how sick the exhaust, that wasn't even visible, made my biological breathing apparatus feel. Our car population has expanded exponentially since the 60s. Imagine if all cars on the road gassed us out like that.

That code you pulled indicated that your catalytic converter's oxygen storage capacity has degraded to less than the calibrated threshold for it to continue to convert deadly and toxic carbon monoxide emissions into greenhouse gas producing carbon dioxide emissions.

The fix flow chart (that GM recommends) is exactly as I stated above. Check the connectors, pigtails, and wiring harnesses to the sensors. Make sure they are not damaged or contacting the exhaust. Do this before shopping for converters. If Alldata granted you access to the full compendium of service data for this concern, that is what you would find written.

It makes sense when you think about. How would the PCM know the condition of the catalyst without getting an electrical signal from somewhere? The foot bone is connected to the hip bone by the leg bone, and the leg bone in this case is the wiring and sencors. To figure out what is going on with the Catalytic converter, the PCM reads a bank of heated oxygen sensors.

One of these heated oxygen sensors is downstream of the 3 way catalyst... the rear sensor. Another heated oxygen sensor is upstream of the catalyst... the front sensor. The PCM measures the response time it takes for the rear heated oxygen sensor to cross a reference rich to lean threshold, minus the response time it takes for the front heated oxygen sensor to do the same thing. The difference between the front time and the rear time indicates the oxygen storage capacity of the catalyst. The P0420 code sets if the time exceeds the predetermined threshold.

The electrical signal range is from less than 300mv to more than 600mv, and vice a versa for lean to rich ratios. So with signal voltages in the millivolts, you want to make sure the wiring is good before throwing parts at it.

The historical code will self clear if no failures are reported by this or any other emissions related diagnostic trouble codes after 40 consecutive full warm up cycles. The check engine light on the dashboard will turn off after only 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail. The current code will clear whenever the diagnostic runs and passes.

If your wiring is all good, then a new catalytic converter is recommended.

Good luck!
 
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NMPastor

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After using some software

I found my copy of OBDWiz with a USB-connected scan tool and was able to look at some component monitoring. The bank 1 and bank 2 sensors are throwing off relatively the same voltages. Hence, I think I can be pretty confident that this is not a sensor issue, but a catalyst issue.

Other monitoring in the hexadecimal codes throws off a component ID $60 and TID $0C, which appears to be thrown off by a bank 1 (downstream) sensor. So it's looking like a catalyst replacement it is.

Your thoughts, Sub?
 

Sub

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My thoughts? I think I want to attend your church.
 
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NMPastor

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It's a long way...

...here from California. But I know a few really good churches there.
 

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