0420 & 0430!! Cut em out? No emissions test..

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WalterMitty

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The DTC's suggest to me that both downstream sensors are indicating a problem. Now, the sensors could be bad, the wiring or connections to the sensors could be bad, or there may be an actual problem with the cats.

It's not impossible for two of anything to fail at the same time. But it isn't the norm.

When did the CEL come on?

---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

The discussion at this link gets into the weeds a little bit, but if you can understand what is going on it can help you diagnose the real problem without wasting time and money on stuff that may not be broken.

http://diagnosticnews.com/tech/catalytic-converter-tech-feature-diagnosing-p0420-or-p0430-dtcs/
 

_Dylan_

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Hang on, let me go crawl under it again to double check.. I'll take some pics

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------



Oh ok, i looked last night with a flashlight and didn't see them but in daylight, there are 2 aft cat sensors that are kind of hard to see but they are there.. So I have 4 sensors, how in Valentines Day am I supposed to know which one has failed?? I am not in a position to replace 4 sensors right now??

Buy one of each, replace right bank and see if the problem goes away. If not replace the right bank and change the left bank and see if that does it?
How is the truck driving? Slow and low power?
Any exhaust leaks?
Original exhaust/cats?

Try clearing the codes and see if they come back.
You could clean the wiring plugs on the sensor.
You could also remove the sensors and take a picture and we can tell you if they look abnormal.
 

SunlitComet

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p0420 is left cylinder bank, p0430 is right cylinder bank. They do haowever indicate the same problem. the aft sensors are seeing the same reading as the front ones indicating that the converters are not doing there job chemically speaking. since you are getting a vibration have your mechanic do a back presssure test of exhaust to check for clogged converters that may have melted down. Oh and no common culprit form your first post.



CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
In order to control emissions of Hydrocarbons (**), Carbon Monoxide (CO) and Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx), The system uses a three-way catalytic converter. The catalyst within the converter promotes a chemical reaction which oxidizes the HC and CO present in the exhaust gas, converting them into harmless water vapor and carbon dioxide. The catalyst also reduces NOx, converting it to nitrogen. The Vehicle Control Module (VCM) has the capability to monitor this process using the HO2S (Bank 1, Sensor 1). The HO2S (Bank 1, Sensor 2), located in the exhaust stream past the three-way catalytic converter, produces an output signal which indicates the oxygen storage capacity of the catalyst; this in turn indicates the catalyst's ability to convert exhaust emissions effectively. If the catalyst is functioning correctly, the HO2S (Bank 1, Sensor 2) signal will be far less active than that produced by the HO2S (Bank 1, Sensor 1). If a problem exists which causes the VCM to detect an excessive HO2S (Bank 1, Sensor 2) activity outside of an acceptable range for an extended period of time, the VCM sets the DTC P0420. This DTC indicates that the three-way catalytic converter's oxygen storage capacity is below a threshold considered acceptable. This is a type A DTC.

CONDITIONS FOR SETTING THE DTC

Converter Warm Up Test


  • A Closed Loop.
  • The commanded Air to Fuel ratio = 14.7:1.
  • The Mass Air Flow (MAF) is greater than 15 g/s.
  • The predicted Catalyst warm up temperature is greater than 450°C.
Converter Warm UP Test Passed



  • No Vehicle Speed (VS) sensor DTCs.
  • No Throttle Position (TP) sensor DTCs.
  • No HO2S DTCs.
  • No misfire DTCs.
  • No Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor DTCs.
  • No fuel trim DTCs.
  • No Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor DTCs.
  • No Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor DTCs.
  • No MAF sensor DTCs.
  • Engine coolant temperature is above 75°C (167°F).
  • The vehicle is in a Closed Loop fuel control.
  • The above conditions met for a period of time in order to ensure a warm catalyst (at least 2 consecutive minutes).
  • The calculated engine load is steady.
  • Vehicle speed is steady between 20 mph and 70 mph.
  • The IAT is at least -9.75°C.
  • The MAF sensor is less than 50 g/s.
  • The engine speed is no more than 4700 RPM.
  • The TP sensor is more than 1.9%.
  • Bank 1, Sensor 2 HO2S average is ±39 mV from Bank 1, Sensor 1 average voltage.
ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS
The VCM will turn ON the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL).

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE MIL/DTC
The VCM turns the MIL off after 3 consecutive driving trips without a fault condition present. A history DTC will clear if no fault conditions have been detected for 40 warm-up cycles (coolant temperature has risen 40°F from the start-up coolant temperature and the engine coolant temperature exceeds 160°F during that same ignition cycle) or the scan tool clearing feature has been used.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
Difficulty running the OBD II status DTC P0420 test may be encountered in areas where the test conditions cannot be maintained easily, especially in urban areas.

TEST DESCRIPTION
The numbers below refer to the step numbers in the diagnostic table.
 
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commercialcobb

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The truck runs fine.. I cant get the back tires to turn over from a dead stop, which I didn't think it would do anyways but I can get up to speed pretty quick. It doesn't act or seem like it's lost power since I have owned it. Matter of fact it seems to run much better since I did the complete tune up last month.

Is there a way of using an Ohm meter in any setting to test the individual sensors for failure??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mb4VmDd0ao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdn4Dk5PSwc
 

SunlitComet

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Normally if something is wrong with them this will happen.



Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S 2) Testing A problem with the HO2S 2 electrical circuits should set Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0137, P0138 or P0140, depending on the specific condition. If the catalyst is functioning correctly, the HO2S 2 signal will be far less active than that produced by HO2S 1. If a problem exists which causes the VCM to detect excessive HO2S 2 activity outside of an acceptable range for an extended period of time, the VCM will set DTC P0420, indicating that the three-way catalytic converter [prime ]s oxygen storage capacity is below a threshold considered acceptable. Refer to DTC P0137 HO2S Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2 or DTC P0138 HO2S Circuit High Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2 or DTC P0140 HO2S Insufficient Activity Bank 1 Sensor 2 or DTC P0420 TWC System Low Efficiency Bank 1 .

---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------

P0420
175644136

DTC P0420 TWC System Low Efficiency Bank 1 (1 Of 2)


58833517

DTC P0420 TWC System Low Efficiency Bank 1 (2 Of 2)


58833515

TWC System
 
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commercialcobb

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So what are those pictures telling me to do?

Can I pull the plug on the 02 sensors and test for voltage to see if one is failed and what voltage would be normal? I know the voltage norm is very low but what should it read?

Would pulling the 02 wires loose individually looking for a change in the operation of the engine, like pulling plug wires, work?
 

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