99 GMC Yukon Denali Starting Issue

[Jeff W]

Hello all,
Been lurking here for a while reading posts, can usually find my answer, this time I am stumped and would appreciate any help. Here goes

99 Yukon Denali. I have multiple problems in the last month but I want to stick with this one. I have replaced the started several times and each time I replace the starter its because of a broken nose cone on the starter. I get a lot of grinding on the starts and eventually the flywheel kicks back so ******* the starter that it breaks the nose cone. Had it scanned at autozone and it throws a lot of codes(Crank sensor, Cam sensor, etc) could I be crazy and maybe its just the distributor/timing is out of adjustment, I have replaced the crankshaft position sensor and no luck. THANKS in advance for any help or opinions. also if you need more info just ask. Thanks

 

[oldsalt]

Boy this is a weird one. Did this just start out of the blue or did you work on something then it started?
Grinding on starts- Sounds like you have some broken teeth on the flywheel or the starter you have has the wrong gear on it. What does the flywheel look like?

What were the codes you got?
How is your timing?
What are your other problems?

 

[SunlitComet]

It sound like you are suffering from the tsb below. You said you replaced the crank sensor perhaps you got another bad sensor or something in the wiring is goofed. You can also have a left over symptom listed below that was over looked. One other thing did you perform the crank relearn procedure when you replaced it last? Here is the TSB details:


Engine - No/Hard/Slow Start/Backfire/Kickback


File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 00-06-04-014

Date: April, 2000

TECHNICAL
Subject:
No, Hard, or Slow Start, Backfire or "Kickback" During
Crank/Start, "Grinding" or Unusual Noises During Crank, DTC P0338
(Replace Crankshaft Position Sensor)

Models:
1999-2000 Cadillac Escalade
1995-2000 Chevrolet and GMC SIT Models
1996-2000 Chevrolet and GMC C/K, M/L, G, P Models
1996-2000 Oldsmobile Bravada
with 4.3 L, 5.0 L, 5.7 L or 7.4 L Engine
(VINs W, X, M, R, J RPOs L35, LF6, L30, L31, L29)

Condition:
Some customers may comment on one or more of the following conditions:

^ Backfire during crank/start
^ "Kickback" during crank/start
^ "No" start
^ "Slow" or "hard" start/crank
^ "Grinding" or unusual noises during crank/start
^ Cracked or broken engine block at the starter boss
^ Broken starter drive housing
^ Broken starter ring gear on flywheel
^ Any combination of the above

Cause:
A condition may exist that allows the crankshaft position sensor to command up to 50 extra degrees of spark advance during engine cranking only. This in turn exposes the engine to higher than normal cylinder pressures which may result in an inoperative condition to the starter drive housing, the engine flywheel starter ring gear, or the engine block at the outside edge of the starter boss.

Correction:
Inspect for a stored powertrain DTC code P0338. This DTC will NOT illuminate the "Service Engine Soon" light. If this code is stored, the Crankshaft Position Sensor, P/N 10456607, MUST be replaced and the remaining components inspected for damage (engine block at the starter boss, the starter drive housing, and the engine flywheel starter ring gear).

Notice : When DTC code P0338 is set, failure to replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor could result in repeated inoperative conditions of the starter or flywheel.

Important : Some flywheel wear is normal; broken or missing teeth and/or cracks, are not normal.

 

[Jeff W]

I have not performed crank relearn procedure also i dont think local auto parts will have a computer that can pull codes...will they? also along with this sensor do u think the timing is off cuz distributor was replaced and might not have been lined up properly. as far as my flywheel the teeth look fine and the grinding start is only intermittent not every start. thank to both replies I hope this info helps you to help me. Thanks again

 

[oldsalt]

Based on sunlitcomet's post I would start with getting the timing dialed in and the relearn process. You'll need a scanner to do the timing as you need to adjust it at around 1000 rpm.

BTW- Thanks to sunlit for posting that TSB. Didn't know about that one. I'll keep it on file.

 

[SunlitComet]

You need a scanner that can read what is commonally called Cam retard. If it was to far off then a p1345 code would pop.

cam retard check:

To insure proper alignment of the distributor, perform the following:

1. With the ignition OFF, install a scan tool to the DLC.
2. Start the engine and bring to normal operating temperature. IMPORTANT: Cam Retard Offset reading will not be accurate below 1000 RPM.
3. Increase engine speed to 1000 RPM.
4. Monitor the Cam Retard Offset.
5. If the Cam Retard indicates a value of 0°+/-2°, the distributor is properly adjusted.
6. If the Cam Retard does not indicate 0°+/-2°, the distributor must be adjusted.

ADJUSTING PROCEDURE

1. With the engine OFF, slightly loosen the distributor hold down bolt. IMPORTANT: Cam Retard Offset reading will not be accurate below 1000 RPM.
2. Start the engine and raise engine speed to 1000 RPM.
3. Using a scan tool monitor Cam Retard Offset.
4. Rotate the distributor as follows:

4.1. To compensate for a negative reading, rotate the distributor in the counterclockwise direction.
4.2. To compensate for a positive reading, rotate the distributor in the clockwise direction.

5. Repeat step 4 until 0°+/-2°, is obtained.
6. Turn the ignition OFF.
7. Tighten the distributor hold-down bolt to 3 Nm (25 lb. ft.).
8. Start the engine, raise engine speed to 1000 RPM and recheck Camshaft Retard Offset.



crank relearn but your scanner might not be capable of doing this so maybe go to dealer:


CRANKSHAFT POSITION (CKP) SYSTEM VARIATION LEARN PROCEDURE

Install the scan tool.
Apply the vehicle's parking brake.
Block the drive wheels.
Close the hood.
Place the vehicle's transmission in Park (AT) or Neutral (MT).
Idle the engine until the coolant temperature reaches 65°C (150°F).
Turn OFF all the accessories. IMPORTANT: If the Crankshaft Position (CKP) System Variation Learn Procedure cannot be completed successfully, refer to DTC P1336 CKP System Variation Not Learned for additional diagnostic information.
Enable the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn Procedure with the scan tool. IMPORTANT: After the ignition switch is turned to the CRANK position, the Vehicle Control Module (VCM) must see a change in the state of brake switch (Released to Applied) to run the learn procedure. Also, the service brakes and the parking brake must be held throughout the duration of the learn procedure.
Apply and hold the service brakes. IMPORTANT: While the learn procedure is in progress, release the throttle immediately when the engine starts to decelerate. The engine control is returned to the operator and the engine will respond to throttle position after the learn procedure is complete.
Slowly raise the engine speed to 4,000 RPM.
Immediately release the throttle when the engine speed decreases.
Turn OFF the ignition for 15 seconds after the learn procedure is completed successfully.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

 

[Jeff W]

WOW THANKS so much for all the replies. I have a question is there anyway I can do these procedures without the scan tool(aligning #1 cyclinder to TDC). If I have to have the scan tool can i rent one or r they expensive to buy, is this just a simple computer that pulls codes or is it a speciality device cuz i have never heard of this. any help is appreciated. Thanks again

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

Sorry forgot to add that I have pulled a p1345 code

 

[SunlitComet]

Negative ghostrider. You need a scanner to get it done properly. Ask a local parts store for loan a tool program to seen if they have a scanner you can rent or borrow. Most likely theirs will not do the crank learn procedure but it should help with the p1345 code if it reads cam retard.

 

[Jeff W]

Figures, thats my luck. I will check with a couple parts places and see what i come up with. cuz i know i was getting p1345 and that was the original reason i changed the crankshaft position sensor, all seemed fine for a couple of weeks but the last couple of days the car has been miserable to start. anyway thanks for all the help especially to sunlitcomet and will be back in touch tomorrow when I find out about the scanner. THANKS

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

BTW forgot to ask do you think cuz the starter issue got so bad so fast do you think the camshaft sensor went bad or its hard to tell. cuz before the starter issueit was kind of bad and that was with the timing off, crank sensor changed but no re-learn procedure done. but then out of the blue it got really bad . thoughts?? Thanks

 

[Reneg]

Hello all,
Been lurking here for a while reading posts, can usually find my answer, this time I am stumped and would appreciate any help. Here goes

99 Yukon Denali. I have multiple problems in the last month but I want to stick with this one. I have replaced the started several times and each time I replace the starter its because of a broken nose cone on the starter. I get a lot of grinding on the starts and eventually the flywheel kicks back so ******* the starter that it breaks the nose cone. Had it scanned at autozone and it throws a lot of codes(Crank sensor, Cam sensor, etc) could I be crazy and maybe its just the distributor/timing is out of adjustment, I have replaced the crankshaft position sensor and no luck. THANKS in advance for any help or opinions. also if you need more info just ask. Thanks

Guys, I had the same problem with the grinding and hard start issue. Come to find out that when I replaced my starter, the place I got the starter from gave me the wrong starter. Not bashing AutoZ'''', but their website offers 2 different starter for the 99 chevy tahoe 5.7 vortec, you have a 9 gear teeth and you also have an 11 gear teeth starter for this particular engine. Make sure you get the right starter. I changed and fried 3 starters and the last one broke off the nose cone due to having the wrong starter. That was alot of fun!!! A sure fire way to make sure you get the right starter is make sure the heat shield off your old starter fits your replacement just right, if you have the wrong starter, the shield will not install correctly. I have spent the last two months underneath my hoe trying to figure out the issue and it was the wrong starter all along!!!!

OMG!!

---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------

You need a scanner that can read what is commonally called Cam retard. If it was to far off then a p1345 code would pop.

cam retard check:

To insure proper alignment of the distributor, perform the following:

1. With the ignition OFF, install a scan tool to the DLC.
2. Start the engine and bring to normal operating temperature. IMPORTANT: Cam Retard Offset reading will not be accurate below 1000 RPM.
3. Increase engine speed to 1000 RPM.
4. Monitor the Cam Retard Offset.
5. If the Cam Retard indicates a value of 0°+/-2°, the distributor is properly adjusted.
6. If the Cam Retard does not indicate 0°+/-2°, the distributor must be adjusted.

ADJUSTING PROCEDURE

1. With the engine OFF, slightly loosen the distributor hold down bolt. IMPORTANT: Cam Retard Offset reading will not be accurate below 1000 RPM.
2. Start the engine and raise engine speed to 1000 RPM.
3. Using a scan tool monitor Cam Retard Offset.
4. Rotate the distributor as follows:

4.1. To compensate for a negative reading, rotate the distributor in the counterclockwise direction.
4.2. To compensate for a positive reading, rotate the distributor in the clockwise direction.

5. Repeat step 4 until 0°+/-2°, is obtained.
6. Turn the ignition OFF.
7. Tighten the distributor hold-down bolt to 3 Nm (25 lb. ft.).
8. Start the engine, raise engine speed to 1000 RPM and recheck Camshaft Retard Offset.



crank relearn but your scanner might not be capable of doing this so maybe go to dealer:


CRANKSHAFT POSITION (CKP) SYSTEM VARIATION LEARN PROCEDURE

Install the scan tool.
Apply the vehicle's parking brake.
Block the drive wheels.
Close the hood.
Place the vehicle's transmission in Park (AT) or Neutral (MT).
Idle the engine until the coolant temperature reaches 65°C (150°F).
Turn OFF all the accessories. IMPORTANT: If the Crankshaft Position (CKP) System Variation Learn Procedure cannot be completed successfully, refer to DTC P1336 CKP System Variation Not Learned for additional diagnostic information.
Enable the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn Procedure with the scan tool. IMPORTANT: After the ignition switch is turned to the CRANK position, the Vehicle Control Module (VCM) must see a change in the state of brake switch (Released to Applied) to run the learn procedure. Also, the service brakes and the parking brake must be held throughout the duration of the learn procedure.
Apply and hold the service brakes. IMPORTANT: While the learn procedure is in progress, release the throttle immediately when the engine starts to decelerate. The engine control is returned to the operator and the engine will respond to throttle position after the learn procedure is complete.
Slowly raise the engine speed to 4,000 RPM.
Immediately release the throttle when the engine speed decreases.
Turn OFF the ignition for 15 seconds after the learn procedure is completed successfully.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

If by chance you end up changing your timing chain cover when you replace your timing chain as suggested by Chevy, the depth of the hole where the (crankshaft position sensor) goes has not been engineered correctly, the hole is too deep and the new sensor will rub up against the disc that sends the message to the senor, thus causing a loud whinning sound that almost sounds like a power steering pump whine when it's low on fluid. Make sure you are getting the correct starter.