CCM level, Bilstein 5100 and Moog Springs

[whee]

Hi guys, I'm looking for a little advice. I've done a bunch of reading on the forum and have come up with a plan to mildly upgrade my Tahoe but I'm unsure if it will work the way I'd like it too. I figure after 300K miles the factory springs and shocks are due for replacement and I could use a bit more clearance.

The plan is for Bilstein 5100s front and rear. Moog 81069 springs in the rear (I frequently have a bunch on weight in the back) and Moog 81244 Springs in the front. CCM 2.5" leveling kit to gain a bit of clearance and make room slightly bigger tires.

I've read the 5100s raise the front by increasing the preload on the springs. Is this true? It does not seem like more preload would work well with the stiffer 81244 springs. Should I not use the moog springs, leave the 5100s at the stock height setting, or pick a different shock (Bilstein 4600?)? Leaving the 5100s at the stock height and adding the CCM kit is what I was thinking.

I'm a little concerned the CCM kit will raise the CG enough I have to drive slower on winding roads. This a realistic concern?

Thanks guys!

 

[Joseph Garcia]

To my limited knowledge on Bilstein shocks, the 5011 shocks won't raise the height of the truck. They are marketed to work very well with already raised trucks.

I don't believe that the 2.5" lift will have a major impact your driving on winding roads, as long as your springs and shocks are new and designed for the lift.

Other folks much more knowledgeable than me in this area will chime in.

 

[The Raven]

The Bilstein 5100 has an adjustable perch mount that allows you to lift up to just under 2". IMPORTANT NOTE - Bilstein expects you to be able to re-use your existing perches, they do not supply new ones with the shocks, nor do they offer any separately, and spring perches are not an orderable part from GM. So make sure you are going to be able to salvage your spring perches. I was not able to in my case so I ended up having to send the Bilsteins back (I ended up going with Rancho instead).

The 5100's provide lift both through preload and changing the perch location. The preload change isn't much, but it's tough to make a call on whether or not it will be an issue. The Rancho setup I have uses a higher-rate spring that is also at a higher-preload and I don't find it harsh at all. It's definitely firmer but it gives a more "precise" feel. That said, my struts are adjustable so perhaps they are compensating somewhat - the 5100s are not adjustable and are set pretty stiff from the factory. The short answer is that I think the only way you'll know if your parts combo will work is to try it.

Finally, 2-3" of lift is not going to be a CoG problem. Not at all. You could pretty much completely negate the very minor effect by getting some lower-offset wheels. I'm running +18 wheels on my 2.25" lift. It corners better than stock.

 

[whee]

Thanks guys. I’ll take a closer look at my perches to see how bad it might be to get them off. They didn’t look bad but I was a quick look. After 10 years and so many miles they could be rusted on there good.

 

[Dustin Jackson]

@whee I have the same setup that you are describing so allow me to shed some light on the situation.

When using the 81244 springs in the front set the bilstein 5100's to factory height when you assemble them and you can use the 2.5 inch spacer just fine. But this will result in the front of the Tahoe being about 2 inches higher than the rear and it will look terrible.

I would at the very least add a 2 or 2.5 inch spacer to the back to keep the stance level looking.

Keep in mind that once you are this height your suspension is stretched and you will probably want to get aftermarket upper control arms and an adjustable pan hard bar to get everything centered.

Take a look at my signature and let me know if you have any specific questions.

Here is a picture of my Tahoe with. Front: Bilstein 5100 (factory height), MOOG 81244, and 2.5 inch spacer | Rear: MOOG 81069 and 2.5 inch spacer

 

[whee]

Thanks Dustin! Your rig looks great.

I think I’ll look at different front springs. I don’t want to go up that much. Most I want to do is 1” at the rear and I’d like to keep a bit of rake so when I have my typical load I’m still mostly level.

 

[Dustin Jackson]

Thanks Dustin! Your rig looks great.

I think I’ll look at different front springs. I don’t want to go up that much. Most I want to do is 1” at the rear and I’d like to keep a bit of rake so when I have my typical load I’m still mostly level.

@whee That is probably a good idea, the setup I have is very firm

 

[The Raven]

double post

 

[The Raven]

Thanks Dustin! Your rig looks great.

I think I’ll look at different front springs. I don’t want to go up that much. Most I want to do is 1” at the rear and I’d like to keep a bit of rake so when I have my typical load I’m still mostly level.

Yeah that's exactly what I did. If you're using Bilsteins, just use the stock front springs with the perches on the top notch on the shock body, then throw 1" pucks in the rear. This is essentially how my truck is set up. I got just over 2" lift up front and just over 1" in the rear...this leaves a bit of rake and that's what I wanted for exactly the same reason as you.

 

[MTDreamin]

The Bilstein 5100 has an adjustable perch mount that allows you to lift up to just under 2". IMPORTANT NOTE - Bilstein expects you to be able to re-use your existing perches, they do not supply new ones with the shocks, nor do they offer any separately, and spring perches are not an orderable part from GM. So make sure you are going to be able to salvage your spring perches. I was not able to in my case so I ended up having to send the Bilsteins back (I ended up going with Rancho instead).

The 5100's provide lift both through preload and changing the perch location. The preload change isn't much, but it's tough to make a call on whether or not it will be an issue. The Rancho setup I have uses a higher-rate spring that is also at a higher-preload and I don't find it harsh at all. It's definitely firmer but it gives a more "precise" feel. That said, my struts are adjustable so perhaps they are compensating somewhat - the 5100s are not adjustable and are set pretty stiff from the factory. The short answer is that I think the only way you'll know if your parts combo will work is to try it.

Finally, 2-3" of lift is not going to be a CoG problem. Not at all. You could pretty much completely negate the very minor effect by getting some lower-offset wheels. I'm running +18 wheels on my 2.25" lift. It corners better than stock.

Hi Raven. I'm new here, new owner of a 2018 Suburban LS. I assume this info for Tahoe to be similar/the same for Suburban. BTW, saw you're in Fleetwood...I'm originally from Wyomissing, have lived out west for more than a decade now.

I had a 4Runner a few years ago that I put Bilstein 5100s on (front and rear), and that's all, to achieve a mild lift, and the difference in ride was night and day -- much better after, even with a small lift. I don't want to go huge, lift or tires, and I think with my 4Runner I went up 2 from stock (so 3rd setting) in the front and up one (2nd setting) in the rear for the perfect slight forward rake.

I guess I'm not familiar with how the spring "perch" setup/condition may or may not differ, if at all, from a 4Runner suspension, or if Bilstein 5100s should be able to be used simply on their own for a mild lift just the same way in the Suburban, if the perches are in fine shape? It sounds like that's what you did in the front, with no Bilstein's in the rear and a just a spacer instead? And you went highest setting in the front? I like the way your truck sits.

As far as figuring out what height adjustability I wanted to go with, there were literally dozens of threads with people posting pictures of their 4Runners at the various settings, but I've had very little luck finding that with either the Suburban or Tahoe. I figure I'd probably try with the same 3rd/2nd setup I used previously. Seems like the Rancho QuickLift may be more popular among the GMs, though I've seen mixed reviews for them, riding rough, etc. My Bilstein's definitely rode firmer, but in a good way IMO, not rough, and with much improved nose dive in braking and body roll, etc.

I had an Expedition in between and even the Ford forums seemed more helpful on the Bilstein topic. Given their popularity, I'm surprised.

My follow up question, of which I've also found little info on is how large a tire guys are fitting without any trimming. Again, I don't want to go huge either way. Looks like the stock (18" wheels) are about 31.5", so only 32.5-33" would probably be what I'm looking for, down the road as the tires it came with are nearly new.