Clutch job from BEEP BEEP haha

[Matthew Jeschke]

We used a steering wheel puller to push in the throw out bearing. Somebody said in a forum online 1 inch throw is about right for the slave cylinder... so we pushed in the throw out bearing with the puller 1 inch... still bad clutch drag.

then tried 1.5" same story. pulling transmission off now. *sigh*

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[Matthew Jeschke]

Got it tore back down. So here's my theory. I Mic'ed the new clutch versus the old clutch (radius). The new clutch is SLIGHTLY wider.

He didn't buy a new flywheel or have his resurfaced. We sanded it down (knocked off the glaze) with 240 grit sandpaper and put in the new components.

I pulled the new clutch off and noticed a polished section of the flywheel on the outside radius of where the new clutch would ride. There's also a SLIGHT raise section as the old clutch wore down into the flywheel.

I'm thinking perhaps the clutch isn't releasing from the outside radius of the flywheel / catching on grove old clutch dug in and dragging enough to keep transmission from going into gear?

I used my feeler gauges to get an idea how deep the grove was. It's less than 0.0025" however, I can feel it with my finger when I run it across, and it's polished from what appears to be the new clutch (our testing).

 

[79jasper]

So you think the pressure plate is catching the clutch disk?
Were the clutch disk and pressure plate not bought together as a set?

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[Matthew Jeschke]

The flywheel... is only thing i could think of. but is flat as a pancake. no idea what is going on. we are reinstalling the original clutch.

it dows not have a remote resivour. I just blocked off slave with steering wheel puller. there was no movement in the clutch pedeal. so hopefully that is gd.

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[exp500]

What pressure plate are you using? You seemed to have figured it when you actuated it with puller. pressure plate should disengage even with 0.030 uneven on flywheel, look inside pressure plate to see if clutch disc contacting housing anywhere. Measure old clutch disk thickness vs new disc. Lay pressure plate on its back, set clutch disc on it. Shouldn't overhang edges. Did you install clutch disc backwards? Compare clutch discs side by side, pay attention to center hub. Post some pics.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

exp500 Thanks for help...

We are using a LUK clutch, old clutch is some Korean build. Yesterday we removed the new LUK clutch and reinstalled the old clutch. Only item new items we left in were the ball/fulcrum for the leaver arm (opposite slave cylinder) and the new throw out bearing. The old throw out bearing and new one were closely compared and of same dimensions. only difference being new one is plastic old is metal.

I'm not sure how to measure the throw of the pressure plate without a press?

Both clutches were installed by the factory service manual process. The right direction.

Wondering if these have anything to do with issue:

We reinstalled the old clutch and now have the same problem. During tear down a washer fell on the ground. We have no idea where it was from. It wasn't mentioned in any of the procedures nor build of materials, and we are unsure where it went.

We noticed the clutch pedal is MUCH harder than it had ever been after we reinstalled the old clutch. Assumed it was due to replacing the master and slave cylinders. It does travel to the floor when pressed but has more of the resistance of a brake pedal. Interestingly, we swapped out the master and slave before removing new clutch. It didn't behave that way with new clutch, only this old one.

We cleaned EVERYTHING with acetone. Including the clutch plate. Can the clutch plate swell?

Before removing and replacing new leaver arm with original one.




Flywheel before reinstalling old clutch.



Putting back on old clutch before installing pressure plate.




I have many more photos, just would only let me upload these few here.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I pulled off the slave just now, after having reinstalled the old clutch the day before. I used a steering wheel puller to simulate the slave cylinder (clutch pedal pressed).

Left jeep in gear, raised on rear wheel with jack. Then had my friend try to spin the wheel as I moved the steering wheel puller (throw out bearing) in and out.

The sweet spot with the least drag seemed to be 0.875" but the clutch still drug on the pressure plate. I tried going a bit further but made the clutch drag worse... Then I tried by slowly going in and out till we hit a sweet spot around that 0.875"


It drags about like a new set of brake pads that are a tad too big. You can spin by hand if you apply force to the wheel stops immediately after you stop pushing it with your hand.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

We are wondering if the new pilot bearing didn't get pushed in far enough, I estimate it's NOT farther than 0.07" out of the flywheel. We pushed the new bearing in to the same depth based off curved edge on top of bearing. Even if the clutch inner ring was interferring, wouldn't the pressure plate be able to tolerate an extra 0.07"?

However, I swear I thought of this when I put it together. I put my finger in the hole there and felt behind the clutch after the pressure plate was installed.

I cannot find any dimensions on the flywheel though to double check I'm not loosing my mind.

1999 Jeep Wrangler w/ 2.5L 4 cylinder and AX5 manual transmission. He his setup has the pilot bearing in the flywheel. I cannot find any dimensions on the flywheel short of buying another one (which we cannot find) and measuring it.

 

[George B]

Is that pilot bearing too tight?

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Is that pilot bearing too tight?

Don't believe so. We did the seal outside, towards transmission. Tested it by spinning the clutch alignment tool, which went in well, creating a seal but not so much I couldn't move the clutch around.

I have a new theory...

When we took the transmission off a washer fell on the ground. We couldn't figure out where the washer went. I can see some metal transfer on the back of it with a circular ring grove pressed into it. I also observed a bit more end-play (up down not in and out) than I thought would be normal on the input shaft for the transmission. I measured the transmission input shaft play with my dial indicator, was 0.1"

I wonder if that washer wasn't a dowel shim for the bell housing. It's 0.1" thick. At most it would move the shaft back 0.05" (not sure how to calculate the runout throw out bearing to pressure plate from that).

Additionally, the throw out bearing guide was a little chewed up. We polished it with 1000 grit sandpaper and shoelace (to evenly polish it). We removed VERY little material from the throw out bearing guide, mainly knocked out the edges in the groves.

I had hoped he could order a new guide but it would take a while to get to my house so we put it together with the old one, which did function. I don't know if polishing it that little bit could have caused this trouble.