Electric Suburban / Electric Tahoe / Yukon / Escalade EV

[Quark]

Petroleum has a diverse supply though only 3 producers with China dominating control more than 80% of the world's supply of “energy transition minerals,” or ETMs which could increase our risk of conflict should China ever try to leverage us over Taiwan or other territorial conflicts. You brought up wars how does this factor into your thinking?

I thought you might want to counter the assertion that mining is much more destructive to the planet than oil and gas extraction. It will require a global mining boom in countries with poor governance scores with corruption and poor human rights. These mining operations require a lot of water and areas where these minerals are found are in short supply. It will leave behind contamination from acid and contamination.

Valid arguments require us to question why government wants us to go this direction. And that's what I do, question rather than blindly accept the media's agenda.

 

[cardude2000]

Petroleum has a diverse supply though only 3 producers with China dominating control more than 80% of the world's supply of “energy transition minerals,” or ETMs which could increase our risk of conflict should China ever try to leverage us over Taiwan or other territorial conflicts. You brought up wars how does this factor into your thinking?

I thought you might want to counter the assertion that mining is much more destructive to the planet than oil and gas extraction. It will require a global mining boom in countries with poor governance scores with corruption and poor human rights. These mining operations require a lot of water and areas where these minerals are found are in short supply. It will leave behind contamination from acid and contamination.

Valid arguments require us to question why government wants us to go this direction. And that's what I do, question rather than blindly accept the media's agenda.

Yep. The switch over to renewables is not without its short term issues. I’ve acknowledged that wholly and “countered” that mining a largely recyclable resource is exponentially more appealing to me than drilling in more and more sensitive area to extract a finite non renewable/recyclable resource. The issues with mining are not insurmountable nor are they “forever” issues like relying on a finite resource like petroleum does.

And you’re using the “current situation” vs future state fallacy in regard to minerals. Same fallacy some use when saying “the grid can’t handle 100% EV’s!”. CURRENTLY China controls 80% of the minerals but only controls 35% of the available reserves. COULD that lead to future conflict? Sure. But should a chance we’ll have future conflicts be keeping us from transitioning to more renewable power? Nah. Not IMO.

As for media, I don’t listen to talk radio or entertainment news so unfortunately I can’t help there. I have no idea what the narrative is.

Curious, what your solution to the finite resource issue? Wait until petroleum is so incredibly costly that companies switch to renewables without any govt investment to jump start the technology?

 

[Quark]

Yep. The switch over to renewables is not without its short term issues. I’ve acknowledged that wholly and “countered” that mining a largely recyclable resource is exponentially more appealing to me than drilling in more and more sensitive area to extract a finite non renewable/recyclable resource. The issues with mining are not insurmountable nor are they “forever” issues like relying on a finite resource like petroleum does.

And you’re using the “current situation” vs future state fallacy in regard to minerals. Same fallacy some use when saying “the grid can’t handle 100% EV’s!”. CURRENTLY China controls 80% of the minerals but only controls 35% of the available reserves. COULD that lead to future conflict? Sure. But should a chance we’ll have future conflicts be keeping us from transitioning to more renewable power? Nah. Not IMO.

As for media, I don’t listen to talk radio or entertainment news so unfortunately I can’t help there. I have no idea what the narrative is.

Curious, what your solution to the finite resource issue? Wait until petroleum is so incredibly costly that companies switch to renewables without any govt investment to jump start the technology?

Everything is finite. Are you saying rare earth metals aren't finite? And water supplies once they're gone they ain't coming back. Is it easier knowing it isn't in your back yard?

 

[cardude2000]

Everything is finite. Are you saying rare earth metals aren't finite? And water supplies once they're gone they ain't coming back. Is it easier knowing it isn't in your back yard?

Wind, hydro and sun arent finite and many materials are reusable.

Petroleum is 100% one and done.

Furthermore the US sits on one of the largest rare earth mineral reserves on the planet so it’s very literally in our own backyard.

You STILL won’t answer a single question.

 

[Quark]

Wind, hydro and sun arent finite and many materials are reusable.

Petroleum is 100% one and done.

Furthermore the US sits on one of the largest rare earth mineral reserves on the planet so it’s very literally in our own backyard.

You STILL won’t answer a single question.

Sorry but I believe you are wrong again North America has only one lithium mine while we have a vast supply of oil. But really we are lucky not to have those mines in our backyard. Lithium is extracted from brine that is evaporated leaving behind many hazardous byproducts. As it stands much of the lithium comes from countries with governments that put little value on civil rights or environmental standards such as we enjoy. So, once again aren't you glad it isn't in your backyard?

 

[cardude2000]

Sorry but I believe you are wrong again North America has only one lithium mine while we have a vast supply of oil. But really we are lucky not to have those mines in our backyard. Lithium is extracted from brine that is evaporated leaving behind many hazardous byproducts. As it stands much of the lithium comes from countries with governments that put little value on civil rights or environmental standards such as we enjoy. So, once again aren't you glad it isn't in your backyard?

Again with the current vs future state fallacy. REE’s are everywhere and aren’t particularly “rare”. This is a production issue not a supply issue. As for domestic production, I’d gladly swap some fracking and offshore oil production for mining operations that produce largely reusable resources.

https://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/solutions/deposits.html

As much as it’s enjoyable to dismantle every claim you throw at the wall it’s tiring.

Why won’t YOU ever answer even a single question?

 

[Quark]

Again with the current vs future state fallacy. REE’s are everywhere and aren’t particularly “rare”. This is a production issue not a supply issue. As for domestic production, I’d gladly swap some fracking and offshore oil production for mining operations that produce largely reusable resources.

https://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/solutions/deposits.html

As much as it’s enjoyable to dismantle every claim you throw at the wall it’s tiring.

Why won’t YOU ever answer even a single question?

Beg to differ but production is usually the bottle neck to supply so they are basically one and the same.

Another mineral used in lithium ion batteries is graphite. Up to 30 times more than lithium content and the US has zero production. Guess who does, China is a major exporter of graphite. What happens when our transportation system is dependent on China supplying multiple basic elements, they tell us to back off Taiwan or they'll cripple our whole economic system worse than Covid did. In this geopolitical environment independence is good dependence bad.

 

[cardude2000]

Beg to differ but production is usually the bottle neck to supply so they are basically one and the same.

Another mineral used in lithium ion batteries is graphite. Up to 30 times more than lithium content and the US has zero production. Guess who does, China is a major exporter of graphite. What happens when our transportation system is dependent on China supplying multiple basic elements, they tell us to back off Taiwan or they'll cripple our whole economic system worse than Covid did. In this geopolitical environment independence is good dependence bad.

AGAIN with current vs future. Just because China is CURRENTLY the leader doesnt mean it always was or will be. The US used to be a leader in many of those minerals (supply and production). We shifted away from them and thankfully we’re making moves to get back into it (article attached).

And I completely agree re: dependance but being dependent on a finite completely NON REUSABLE resource is not a long term strategy.

So again, you are vehemently against EV’s and it appears, renewables...so what are your ideas for long term stability...drill baby drill?

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/17...al-chinas-dominance-in-rare-earth-metals.html

 

[Quark]

AGAIN with current vs future. Just because China is CURRENTLY the leader doesnt mean it always was or will be. The US used to be a leader in many of those minerals (supply and production). We shifted away from them and thankfully we’re making moves to get back into it (article attached).

And I completely agree re: dependance but being dependent on a finite completely NON REUSABLE resource is not a long term strategy.

So again, you are vehemently against EV’s and it appears, renewables...so what are your ideas for long term stability...drill baby drill?

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/17...al-chinas-dominance-in-rare-earth-metals.html

You are ignoring the reason why we aren't mining, our laws limiting what we can and can't do to our environment not to mention health and safety. Are you aware that graphite mining is as hazardous as coal mining? Think of the poor people who will be putting their health at risk so that the upper 20% can enjoy feeling good about themselves while getting a carbon tax credit. You don't see the big picture only what they splash across the evening news. Thank you for this opportunity to share.

 

[cardude2000]

You are ignoring the reason why we aren't mining, our laws limiting what we can and can't do to our environment not to mention health and safety. Are you aware that graphite mining is as hazardous as coal mining? Think of the poor people who will be putting their health at risk so that the upper 20% can enjoy feeling good about themselves while getting a carbon tax credit. You don't see the big picture only what they splash across the evening news. Thank you for this opportunity to share.

I don’t “watch” news and I’m not ignoring anything other than the fallacies. The article I linked to talks about the regulatory environment and the environmental hurdles.

And again with an emotional appeal vs an actual response. Why?

So....Do you believe that the “big picture” and best long term plan is to focus only on petroleum?