Electric Suburban / Electric Tahoe / Yukon / Escalade EV

[cardude2000]

Well there's the problem. We have a choice when it comes to throwing money at a mature practical ICE based automobile that will serve 100% of the people 100% of the time but we have no choice in subsidizing an EV that serves the top 20% of earners 80% of the time.

Speaking of Tesla I just read that they're having trouble meeting sales forecasts in China. Seems the Chinese expect higher quality than Americans when it comes to EVs. Who would have thunk it.

Tesla is the top selling EV in China but China has wised up and is throwing money at emerging technologies so that advantage won’t last forever as strong competitors are taking off and the US govt throttles EV’s subsidies down.

I guess I don’t see this as a zero sum game. Seems to me we could continue to subsidize a mature industry based on resources that disappear over the next century and foster innovation in emerging technology at the same time.

Trains, planes and ICE autos were once for the top 20% at one point too...each had significant investment from the govt to become what they are today.

 

[Quark]

Tesla is the top selling EV in China but China has wised up and is throwing money at emerging technologies so that advantage won’t last forever as strong competitors are taking off and the US govt throttles EV’s subsidies down.

I guess I don’t see this as a zero sum game. Seems to me we could continue to subsidize a mature industry based on resources that disappear over the next century and foster innovation in emerging technology at the same time.

Trains, planes and ICE autos were once for the top 20% at one point too...each had significant investment from the govt to become what they are today.

Au contraire mon frère, Tesla likes to keep those numbers hidden from investors as much as possible so only reports quarterly world wide sales.

"The EV maker sold 11,671 locally built Model 3 and Model Y cars in China last month, while exporting a further 14,174, according to the China Passenger Car Association. It was the first time that the association broke down the sales that way and comes amid questions about the strength of demand for Tesla’s electric vehicles in China after a run of adverse publicity."

"Chinese EV maker BYD Co. , its closest direct competitor in the country, sold 78,414 passenger EVs in China the first four months of the year."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas...-mostly-exports-11620817683?mod=hp_lista_pos4

Tesla is exporting most of the cars they make in Shanghai and by inferring from the above quotes they sell less than half as many as their largest competitor, BYD Co..

Tomorrow's challenge will be defending your claim that we are subsidizing ICE vehicles.

While we still have daylight why not discuss your contention that ICE vehicles were subsidized in the beginning. Henry Ford gained funding from private investors and from patented inventions. You might say he was a self made man. The success of the Model T actually made it possible for the government to fund our early road development from sales tax on gasoline. So there you have it.

Seems every time I read your posts I find another glitch. We are not 'throttling down EV subsidies'. I'll give you the opportunity to self correct if you care to.

 

[cardude2000]

Au contraire mon frère, Tesla likes to keep those numbers hidden from investors as much as possible so only reports quarterly world wide sales.

"The EV maker sold 11,671 locally built Model 3 and Model Y cars in China last month, while exporting a further 14,174, according to the China Passenger Car Association. It was the first time that the association broke down the sales that way and comes amid questions about the strength of demand for Tesla’s electric vehicles in China after a run of adverse publicity."

"Chinese EV maker BYD Co. , its closest direct competitor in the country, sold 78,414 passenger EVs in China the first four months of the year."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas...-mostly-exports-11620817683?mod=hp_lista_pos4

Tesla is exporting most of the cars they make in Shanghai and by inferring from the above quotes they sell less than half as many as their largest competitor, BYD Co..

Tomorrow's challenge will be defending your claim that we are subsidizing ICE vehicles.

While we still have daylight why not discuss your contention that ICE vehicles were subsidized in the beginning. Henry Ford gained funding from private investors and from patented inventions. You might say he was a self made man. The success of the Model T actually made it possible for the government to fund our early road development from sales tax on gasoline. So there you have it.

“Zeekr, its own home-grown EV brand, will face fierce competition from Tesla whose Model 3 was the top-selling electric vehicle model in China last year. It will also compete with Chinese groups Nio, Xpeng and Li Auto which are seeing healthy sales.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56493572.amp


“The EV maker sold just shy of 70,000 electric cars in China in the first quarter of 2021 according to the Global Times, 37% of its sales globally in a quarter that is traditionally slow for the auto industry at large and doubly so in China due to its New Year shutdown.

With 226,000 “new energy vehicles”, as they are known in China, sold in March, this also means one in three was a Tesla.”

https://thedriven.io/2021/04/12/tesla-sells-one-in-three-electric-cars-in-china/amp/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Quark]

“Zeekr, its own home-grown EV brand, will face fierce competition from Tesla whose Model 3 was the top-selling electric vehicle model in China last year. It will also compete with Chinese groups Nio, Xpeng and Li Auto which are seeing healthy sales.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56493572.amp


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Wow, more bad news for Tesla, huh. Though from the article I related it appears Tesla has trailed BYD Co. all along as now we know Tesla is exporting most of the cars they make in Shanghai.

Perhaps you would like to discuss your contention that ICE was subsidized in the beginning?

 

[cardude2000]

Wow, more bad news for Tesla, huh. Though from the article I related it appears Tesla has trailed BYD Co. all along as now we know Tesla is exporting most of the cars they make in Shanghai.

Perhaps you would like to discuss your contention that ICE was subsidized in the beginning?

Yep. Bad news indeed. Like I said. Until very recently Tesla has had the TOP SELLING EV in China. But China is doubling down on EV’s so that won’t last long.

“The EV maker sold just shy of 70,000 electric cars in China in the first quarter of 2021 according to the Global Times, 37% of its sales globally in a quarter that is traditionally slow for the auto industry at large and doubly so in China due to its New Year shutdown.

With 226,000 “new energy vehicles”, as they are known in China, sold in March, this also means one in three was a Tesla.”

https://thedriven.io/2021/04/12/tesla-sells-one-in-three-electric-cars-in-china/

The auto industry would be completely different today if it weren’t for the highway system (which never was and still isnt paid for entirely by gas taxes and use fees) and all of the money spent subsidizing and incentivizing OMG while ensuring stable access to world oil reserves (and storing our own to keep prices stable). Not to mention low loans/bailouts. We’ve discussed this in much detail. I’ve said it before, we differ in that I believe the govt should make bold audacious non profitable bets like they did with the highway system.

I get that you’re desperate to prove me wrong on ANYTHING at this point but gotcha games are unbecoming.

Cmon man.

 

[cardude2000]

We are not 'throttling down EV subsidies'. I'll give you the opportunity to self correct if you care to.

Sigh

“The U.S. federal government is subsidizing electric cars with a $7,500 consumer tax break for the first 200,000 vehicles an automaker sells. Once the threshold is met, the tax credit is cut by half for all vehicles sold over the next six months and is then halved again for another six months before running out completely.

The U.S. Congress at the end of 2019 declined to extend the cap to 600,000 electric vehicles per carmaker.

So far, only Tesla and General Motors Co have hit the cap. Subsidies for Tesla finished at the end of 2019, while those for GM will run out on March 31.”

https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2020/02/01/tesla-subsidies-report/


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[Quark]

Yep. Bad news indeed. Like I said. Until very recently Tesla has had the TOP SELLING EV in China. But China is doubling down on EV’s so that won’t last long.

“The EV maker sold just shy of 70,000 electric cars in China in the first quarter of 2021 according to the Global Times, 37% of its sales globally in a quarter that is traditionally slow for the auto industry at large and doubly so in China due to its New Year shutdown.

With 226,000 “new energy vehicles”, as they are known in China, sold in March, this also means one in three was a Tesla.”

https://thedriven.io/2021/04/12/tesla-sells-one-in-three-electric-cars-in-china/

The auto industry would be completely different today if it weren’t for the highway system (which never was and still isnt paid for entirely by gas taxes and use fees) and all of the money spent subsidizing and incentivizing OMG while ensuring stable access to world oil reserves (and storing our own to keep prices stable). Not to mention low loans/bailouts. We’ve discussed this in much detail. I’ve said it before, we differ in that I believe the govt should make bold audacious non profitable bets like they did with the highway system.

I get that you’re desperate to prove me wrong on ANYTHING at this point but gotcha games are unbecoming.

Cmon man.

Well no not quite true, Tesla has never been the top selling EV and is conflating their sales numbers in China by counting all cars produced in Shanghai while most are exported. Officially Tesla only reports world sales by quarter so they can get away with this. It's all in the link I provided. BYD is selling almost twice as many as Tesla and all you would have to do to prove it to yourself is search Google with Tesla BYD China. It's not a gotcha it's fact checking.

 

[Quark]

Sigh

“The U.S. federal government is subsidizing electric cars with a $7,500 consumer tax break for the first 200,000 vehicles an automaker sells. Once the threshold is met, the tax credit is cut by half for all vehicles sold over the next six months and is then halved again for another six months before running out completely.

The U.S. Congress at the end of 2019 declined to extend the cap to 600,000 electric vehicles per carmaker.

So far, only Tesla and General Motors Co have hit the cap. Subsidies for Tesla finished at the end of 2019, while those for GM will run out on March 31.”

https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2020/02/01/tesla-subsidies-report/


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Oy, not again.

Tesla collected $1.6 billion in regulatory credits in 2020 alone otherwise Tesla would never have turned a profit - ever. Tesla exists because of government tax subsidies and will for the foreseeable future. As soon as Biden can he will shove a $100 billion rebate program through Congress. Tax subsidies aren't going down as you claim they're going up.

 

[cardude2000]

Well no not quite true, Tesla has never been the top selling EV and is conflating their sales numbers in China by counting all cars produced in Shanghai while most are exported. Officially Tesla only reports world sales by quarter so they can get away with this. It's all in the link I provided. BYD is selling almost twice as many as Tesla and all you would have to do to prove it to yourself is search Google with Tesla BYD China. It's not a gotcha it's fact checking.

I don’t know. You could be right but this shows BYD as selling 23k units in March. If that trend holds for the year they’d certainly exceed Tesla’s 2020 numbers.

https://insideevs.com/news/503336/china-byd-sales-march-2021/amp/

This article says that Tesla sold the most EV’s IN COUNTRY according to China “passenger car association”.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/02/09/teslas-china-sales-more-than-doubled-in-2020.html

I’m not sure why any of this matters. Whether tesla is #1 or #3 I’m not sure how that changes anything.

 

[Quark]

I don’t know. You could be right but this shows BYD as selling 23k units in March. If that trend holds for the year they’d certainly exceed Tesla’s 2020 numbers.

https://insideevs.com/news/503336/china-byd-sales-march-2021/amp/

This article says that Tesla sold the most EV’s IN COUNTRY according to China “passenger car association”.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/02/09/teslas-china-sales-more-than-doubled-in-2020.html

I’m not sure why any of this matters. Whether tesla is #1 or #3 I’m not sure how that changes anything.

It may not matter but you made the claim. It was part of your argument so I decided to look it up, thaz whut I doo.