Engine shuts off while driving

[sasso]

Tried adding additional ground, doing the relearn (although it failed) but now seems like the symptoms are getting worse. Now it will die at idle, no ac no steering input no brake input. Once it warms up. Idle starts hunting and it eventually drops too low and dies. As always will not start back up.

The question is what can cause a normal cold start and fail once it warms up.

Once we figure that out, I think it can be solved. Gonna try for another couple of days if not will send it to a dealership in another state. Hopefully they are better although Google reviews are very similar.

 

[jfoj]

While the CASE relearn is a wise idea, I would have hoped who ever changed the crank sensor would have done this, I doubt it will solve your problem.

From research is appears the ESP has a 60 Amp fuse and the electric steering can use a lot of current. Using the typical 75% loading for fused circuits, this would mean the electric steering could possibly draw as much as 45+ amps at times. If there was something wrong with the electrical steering system, it is possible there could be a quick high Amp load that would not blow the fuse but could possible spike the electrical system?

I would recommend just pulling the power steering fuse and trying to recreate the engine stalling. Seems it is somewhat repeatable at this point. A quick and simple way to at least possibly have a direct coorelation to the steering that is electrically and not mechanical.

Good luck.

 

[jfoj]

My reply was while you had just replied, so what I suggest may not be useful at this point.

You may want to have the dealer check for fuel contamination at this point to just rule it out as a factor. You clearly have not been able to use the fuel up that you currently have in the fuel tank.

I will think on this for a bit and see if I have any other suggestions based on your latest reply.

 

[sasso]

i doubt there is any fuel contamination, as i am in a country that has very clean fuel. So garage is no suspecting the high pressure fuel pump. When it starts up next, they are gonna run live data and check voltage, high prssure fuel and low pressure, as well as rpm and engine power.

I hope this gets resolved.

Now i need to also know how to dance around the dealerships to avoid me losing my warranty

 

[Doubeleive]

i doubt there is any fuel contamination, as i am in a country that has very clean fuel. So garage is no suspecting the high pressure fuel pump. When it starts up next, they are gonna run live data and check voltage, high prssure fuel and low pressure, as well as rpm and engine power.

I hope this gets resolved.

Now i need to also know how to dance around the dealerships to avoid me losing my warranty

just don't tell them you did anything to it, do not open your mouth and insert foot.
if you added anything and they say it "may be because" of ***, remove *** and take it back.
dealers like to only deal with oem equipment, adding anything makes them "check a box" when reporting to gm and then gm comes back and says "this is the problem"
that is how it goes, when diagnosing they follow a exact set of parameters. throwing something else in there causes a problem for them.
nothing added, no box checked. easy as that.
they are required to follow a "diagnostic tree" do not add any limbs

 

[jfoj]

As for fuel contamination, this is a wide range of possibilities. Not sure what country you live in, but a lot of things can happen. First is too much Ethanol, this can be common where the fuel depot screws up and adds too much Ethanol. Pretty easy check with a tester the dealer should have. Water in fuel, underground tanks always have water in them, often it needs to be pumped out manually. If you fuel up shortly after a fuel dump at the station, the water can be stirred up.

Anyway, it is a wise idea based on some of what is going on to verify fuel quality.

A $10 smart phone app with a $20-$40 OBDII interface can monitor a lot sensor data. I would need to verify 100% if the Fuel Pressures are part of the standard OBDII data set as I have about 5 different tools I use and I do not recall exactly the what the standard OBD tool can monitor. I do know that things like High and Low fuel pressure, RPM, Timing, Voltage, MAF reading and many other parameters, this can all be displayed and at a minimum graphed on some of the mid level tools without a problem.

Given you do not sound like you have good dealer options, it would be wise for you to invest in an App and Interface even if they get you sorted for now. You may also want to invest some money in a mid level tool that would help you out. I have no problem dropping $500-750 as this will probably save this much with 1 repair. I also have a number of different cars within the family, so I need different model coverage. Where dealer labor rates are $125-$175 per hour, you can see how quickly a tool will pay for itself.

One thing I was surprised of when watching my the low fuel pressure yesterday while driving my 2024 was how much the Low Pressure was moving around. I figured with the lift pump and the high pressure pump, the low pressure lift pump would be a pretty stable pressure, but was not the case. I will confirm across a few other like vehicles just for reference. The high side common rail pressure typically operated between 750-2500 PSI as I recall.

 

[blanchard7684]

Tried adding additional ground, doing the relearn (although it failed) but now seems like the symptoms are getting worse. Now it will die at idle, no ac no steering input no brake input. Once it warms up. Idle starts hunting and it eventually drops too low and dies. As always will not start back up.

The question is what can cause a normal cold start and fail once it warms up.

Once we figure that out, I think it can be solved. Gonna try for another couple of days if not will send it to a dealership in another state. Hopefully they are better although Google reviews are very similar.

One big thing here is that the ecm is going between open loop and closed loop.

If you are getting the P0016 cam/crank correlation code then the issue may be more related to variable valve timing or the reluctor wheel on crank or cam. I've seen P0016 along with a host of other cam timing codes when a component in the oil control fails on VVT systems.

However...

In my experience P0016 by itself is usually a mechanical issue that is keeping the cam and crank position out of sync. So this could even be a timing gear or timing chain issue. Although I'd say a 2023 is pretty early for this wear…

Some scan tools have an oscilloscope function that can test this. I'm certain the dealer has this capability.

I also wouldn't rule out the HPFP either. There are a host of failure modes that could be temperature dependent. The most obvious of which is pump efficiency from excess clearances on the internal piston.

The strangest P0016 issue I ever saw or was involved with...a guy had a low mileage Tundra 5.7 in the middle east. Something got lost in translation during an oil change and they put 75 viscosity grade oil. The owner drives it and on a heavy acceleration the engine dies and makes noise. They find out that some of the roller followers (overhead cam version of rocker arms) were spit out. This is typical of OHC engines that use roller followers.

So he gets the followers put back on. The thing never runs right. It runs ok when cold or at wide open throttle. Anywhere in between it is choppy, idle feels weird, etc.

Turns out he didn't see the major damage on the cam shaft reluctor wheel that is cast into the camshaft from the follower issue. The exhaust cams were not giving a proper signal on position and code 0016 was set everytime he drove it and it wasn't in open loop.

 

[sasso]

So, checked literally everything. Nothing is out of the ordinary. returned everything to OEM and off it goes to the dealership.

I will update once i know more.

Once again, thank you everyone. I appreciate it greatly

 

[jfoj]

The last time I had a similar problem was with an older Lexus where it would always cold start but run almost exactly 20 minutes and die. Then no start until it sat overnight.

Pulled the ECM, opened it up and inspected it closely and found a bad solder joint inside that would heat up and then the connection would be intrupted. Reworked the solder joint and problem solved.

I would be surprised on newer technology this type of problem occuring. Could be a flaky component that is faulty once warmed up.

But the entire issue about turning the steering and causing the engine to quit would likely rule out a fault ECM component, but who knows for sure.

I hope the dealer can make some progress.

What country are you located in?

 

[viven44]

Pulled the ECM, opened it up and inspected it closely and found a bad solder joint inside that would heat up and then the connection would be intrupted. Reworked the solder joint and problem solved.

I would be surprised on newer technology this type of problem occuring. Could be a flaky component that is faulty once warmed up.

As a “semiconductor packaging”engg, I deal with manufacturing, quality and reliability of consumer and automotive grade chips/packages. OEs like Bosch and Conti use the chips/packages from a chip company (like the ones I’ve worked for) and create the ECMs/modules. What you described is a failure in the solder joint the OE’s manufacturing… unfortunately what is within the chips themselves is an issue as well (or most likely will be in the future)

Brace for impact… the focus since the 09 recession has been cost cutting. In past years when cost wasn’t top priority, and we didn’t have issues using lead based solders as well, our qualification criteria would be such that in the field you could expect 20+ years.

Since about 2015 or so I’ve seen consistent push for “cost leadership” and meeting 10 year qualification requirement is enough now. On any grade 0 automotive qualified semiconductor part anything over 10 years is on borrowed time…. And the modules are increasingly becoming more complex and proprietary GM or Ford or other automakers design (no aftermarket likely anymore).

That is why I probably won’t own anything newer for my own use….