First Oil Change?

[Meccanoble]

I have yet to see any evidence from anyone to indicate that they ever picked the 'wrong' oil. What you usually see is people saying, "I've used X brand forever and never had a problem."

Outside of verifying oil weight, the average user is probably overthinking things when spending a ton of time deciding on oil selection.

Especially with such a short interval. I would be more worried about fluids that have to stay in the car for 30+k miles like power steering, transmission, differential, coolant, etc. Oil literally has the shortest interval out of all fluids in the car. Unless you race, the average person wont see a difference I dont think.

 

[SnowFish]

Key factor is changing the oil. Period. You're already ahead of the game by changing it.
And changing at an interval governed by your driving style, distance, and run time. One change interval Does Not fit all.

My Yukon is not my daily driver, but sees longer run times. However, 3500 miles could take 4-5 months. It gets changed around the 3000 mile mark mainly due to our environment. From December to April we can see temperatures ranging from +50f to -35f.
Moisture, and corrosive contaminates, can not get burned off with shorter run times.

My daily driver is a 1991 Geo Metro. I live very close to work. Changed oil at 2000 miles yesterday. My bad, way over due. Oil was pushing 7 months oil and was horrible.

Oil life indicator is a waste of time. I ignore it completely. I think it was designed to let sludge build up so service work is needed.
Search this forum for "lift ticks", "had to flush my engine", "burning oil", etc. These are the "oil life indicator" folks, or the 5000+ mile short run time folks.

Why wait until there's problems? Change the oil, keep it clean, and your engine will reward you for many miles.

 

[Mr T]

Key factor is changing the oil. Period. You're already ahead of the game by changing it.
And changing at an interval governed by your driving style, distance, and run time. One change interval Does Not fit all.

My Yukon is not my daily driver, but sees longer run times. However, 3500 miles could take 4-5 months. It gets changed around the 3000 mile mark mainly due to our environment. From December to April we can see temperatures ranging from +50f to -35f.
Moisture, and corrosive contaminates, can not get burned off with shorter run times.

My daily driver is a 1991 Geo Metro. I live very close to work. Changed oil at 2000 miles yesterday. My bad, way over due. Oil was pushing 7 months oil and was horrible.

Oil life indicator is a waste of time. I ignore it completely. I think it was designed to let sludge build up so service work is needed.
Search this forum for "lift ticks", "had to flush my engine", "burning oil", etc. These are the "oil life indicator" folks, or the 5000+ mile short run time folks.

Why wait until there's problems? Change the oil, keep it clean, and your engine will reward you for many miles.

SnowFish: I respectfully don't fully agree with your comment about oil life indicator being a waste of time. My '08 Denali 6.2 has 179,000 miles on it. We bought it with 50k. I've done every oil change since 50K on my own and at home. I've changed all of them when the indicator hit 10% or less. Sometimes when it hit 0%. Last month I did a full oil pan drop to replace the oil pickup tube gasket, to increase oil pressure, etc. When I looked inside the tube there was zero heavy sludge. Minor hardened black buildup in just 2 corners of the most bottom portion of the oil well. I would say less than a teaspoon worth of that hardened carbon buildup. I can't call it sludge cause it was hard enough it wouldn't be in the fluid. So 120K of miles that I'm involved with and 179k total and no sludge. I've used conventional--never synthetic--only because that's what is recommended. I won't switch to synthetic cause the manufacture doesn't require it and don't want to have leak issues. I do use high-mileage oil at this point as it does have a drop-a-day leak at this point.

I should add that I have a 2013 Honda V6 accord and it requires synthetic and I use it there. It is required because Honda gets better MPH from it--at least that is what I could read. I use the lease expensive I can find that is a major brand and never had an issue. All exceed standards.

I keep detailed records of all my work done on the car and did a quick review of change frequency and its between 6,000 to 8,000 miles. So the indicator changes the frequency based on driving habits, etc. So I would be lead to believe it works. Never have I pulled an 8,000 mile oil and was upset cause it was too thick, etc. All seemed black due to excessive carbon (that's normal) and they flowed great. I will continue to use the indicator as it's served me well. My engine is at 179K and they way it sounds and runs, should likely go to 250 and beyond. Only burns 1 quart in-between changes, no smoke, no knock, still smooth.

 

[SnowDrifter]

I also saw a tear down of supertech oil filters and they have far superior innards to that of fram (low bar, I know), so I'm sold on those too.

Could you post a link to this? I'd like to give it a quick once over

 

[SnowDrifter]

SnowFish: I respectfully don't fully agree with your comment about oil life indicator being a waste of time.

The OLM isn't accurate, IMO.

Contextually, it's designed to provide a service life that minimizes maintenance costs for the first owner. Generally this target life span is around 10 years and 125k miles. After that isn't a concern as there's no financial incentive to do so. Second/third hand owners won't be taking their vehicle to the dealer for service, and won't be buying new vehicles. There's no income for them.

It also relies on using oil that has meets the appropriate MFR designation, as it measures oil life by proxy with things like load, run time, and miles; not by any analysis of the oil itself. An older engine that may have some larger clearances, more blow by, maybe a small vacuum leak causing some dirt ingestion will NOT be picked up by the OLM.

I had my pan down last week doing some maintenance and saw some light varnish on some of the internal parts. I've kept a 3.5 to 4k service interval despite the oil monitor showing 60-70% life remaining. Since that finding, I'm shortening my interval to 2.5 to 3k. I believe it to be due to short trips and high idle time in cold weather. That being said, my 15 year old 140k vehicle is in exemplary condition mechanically. With the original gaskets, there were no leaks. No wet spots. The famed pickup tube o-ring was in great condition and showed no signs of cracking or other deterioration. I also don't suffer from the piston slap or lifter tick issues that seem to be so common. It's the same case with other vehicles I maintain - no leaks, noises, PCV issues, etc. Even where such things are considered "common" for said vehicles. I'm of the personal opinion that minor changes in pH and fuel dilution, while unimportant from a metal to metal wear perspective, cause long term degradation in seals.

If you really want to get a better gauge of how your oil is doing without tearing into engine internals, pony up a couple bucks and send it off to a lab such as blackstone for analysis. They can help you determine an appropriate service life for your oil, filter, and driving conditions.




tl;dr - the oil life monitor is not 'god' - it's intended to minimize maintenance costs through a vehicle's intended service life. If you're a second owner or wish to go beyond that, you'll need to think with your head a little bit and potentially modify your maintenance schedule to fit your use case and needs for the vehicle. As always, do your own research. I'm just some dude on the internet, you're the one footing the bill!

 

[Derick]

Could you post a link to this? I'd like to give it a quick once over

Just type in supertech oil filter and you'll get a bunch. But here's one:

Project farm also just did a supertech VS redline oil review. Redline took the trophy but not by much. Certainly not worth 2x the cost.

 

[SnowDrifter]

Just type in supertech oil filter and you'll get a bunch. But here's one:

Project farm also just did a supertech VS redline oil review. Redline took the trophy but not by much. Certainly not worth 2x the cost.

I'll stick w/ my ultra synthetics. I've been hard pressed to find a better filter except for Amsoil's EA line, but the things are incredibly difficult to get for me.


Yeah I saw project farm's test. I admire what he's trying to do, but I really don't think it gives nearly enough in the way of usable info to rank oil, except for perhaps his bearing test. The rest of it is good intentions and an interesting comparison, but IMO doesn't actually provide any usable info. Let it be said that in spite of my complaints with his lubricant testing, I have a lot of respect for the man and what he's able to throw together at home.

Bearing test - He's consistent with it. Gives a decent baseline of film strength, but the equipment is, IMO, more suitable for testing gear oils.

Flow test - Honesty says nothing. 5w30 has a range in which is acceptable. Some are on the thicker side, some are on the thinner side. If he carried some out at different temps to get a better grasp on a lubricant's VII I'd be all for it. But a single temp pour gives ???? for info.

Coffee pot test - All oils will lose a bit in heat as the lighter MW components flash off. Without knowing the oil's oxidation resistance and pH difference, it again, doesn't provide usable info.


I think a lot of the marks of whether an oil is good or not can't really be tested as a home-gamer.
- Thin film oxidation
- Ability to maintain lubricity in spite of moisture or fuel contamination
- Lubricity at high temps
- High temp / high shear
- Lifespan of pH buffers
- Effectiveness of dispersants and detergents
- Resistance to deposition, both in a new and used state, at high temperatures
- VII breakdown
- Testing of the high pressure / high temp anti wear additives

 

[Derick]

I'll stick w/ my ultra synthetics. I've been hard pressed to find a better filter except for Amsoil's EA line, but the things are incredibly difficult to get for me. <snip>

I agree, his tests are great and all...and provide the common man a good comparison, but it definitely doesnt show what the oil will look like in 3000 miles.

That said, I ran amsoil for a minute. Didnt get a thing out of it. I tried severe gear in my diffs of my old envoy, and in the shaft drive of my bikes....and I just thought it was very 'chattery.' I wasn't impressed. The oil seemed fine, good quality, etc....but again not worth all the money for a change. If I was able to get it local, and since it technically is the similar price of mobil1 motorcycle oil, I'd run it if it was here. But shipping just is ridiculous anymore these days. I'll take what I can get locally.

 

[SnowDrifter]

I agree, his tests are great and all...and provide the common man a good comparison, but it definitely doesnt show what the oil will look like in 3000 miles.

That said, I ran amsoil for a minute. Didnt get a thing out of it. I tried severe gear in my diffs of my old envoy, and in the shaft drive of my bikes....and I just thought it was very 'chattery.' I wasn't impressed. The oil seemed fine, good quality, etc....but again not worth all the money for a change. If I was able to get it local, and since it technically is the similar price of mobil1 motorcycle oil, I'd run it if it was here. But shipping just is ridiculous anymore these days. I'll take what I can get locally.

Amsoil is definitely built around longer drain intervals. That's the stuff you grab and run it for 15k under the supervision of some OCIs to establish a drain interval. Their whole thing is more expensive oil but you don't need to change it as often.

I've seen folks run it for 10k intervals only to have their motor sludged up. Or others who run the same oil for almost 40k and it's fine. Every engine is different! My point being, and I think it's really applicable to this thread, if you want to get the most life out of your oil - there truly is no substitute for some regular lab tests as you're feeling things out and determining how much life it has per application.

Used to run amsoil in my old subaru. I worked the ass off that poor little 2.5 but she never gave me any issues. Switched to redline due to local availability.

I use amsoil in my trans on the 'hoe. Seems to prefer it over the maxlife stuff or redline's D4, but I think it might be viscosity related more than anything. I'll flip flop between RP and Amsoil for my power steering. If I'm ordering from amsoil for trans fluid, I'll toss power steering in there as well. Else I use RP for availability