Software’s place in a mechanical world

[Steebu]

Just saw this interview with Jim Farley (Ford CEO), and he makes some very telling comments about modern cars, and in particular, EVs. Paging Ms Mary, are you listening?

He admits what we’ve all suspected for a long time: they’re not software companies, but they better become one and not treat it like an afterthought. It also explains a lot of the issues we’re seeing with OTA updates.

I’ve linked to the relevant part in the interview:

 

[swathdiver]

Just saw this interview with Jim Farley (Ford CEO), and he makes some very telling comments about modern cars, and in particular, EVs. Paging Ms Mary, are you listening?

He admits what we’ve all suspected for a long time: they’re not software companies, but they better become one and not treat it like an afterthought. It also explains a lot of the issues we’re seeing with OTA updates.

I’ve linked to the relevant part in the interview:

And this knucklehead is in the car building business? He called his company a "legacy" company. He's telling us his products are obsolete? LOL

Ferd's shareholders ought to demand better. So should GM. You could put both their brains together and they would disappear insider the mind of Ross Perot.

Anyone remember him?

 

[Steebu]

Well, the context of him calling Ford a “Legacy“ company (from earlier parts of the interview) is in comparison to that of Tesla, Nio, Rivian, and all these EV startups that are starting from the ground-up as a software company and putting a car on top of the software. They have full control of every module in the vehicle so when something goes south they can fix it themselves.

He said they’re rectifying that by making their next-gen of EVs “theirs” from the ground up; the challenge is that they’re not a software company but they better learn how to do it Fast if they want to compete.

Given Barra’s statement about “30k EVs are not profitable”, GM is taking the stance that ICE vehicles will carry them into the next-gen of EVs … but I’m guessing that we won’t see any changes to how those ICE vehicles are produced - e.g., we’ll still have the ECM built by Bosch, the seat control module built by someone else, and neither will talk to each other and OTA’s will brick the vehicle.

Bleah.

 

[Doubeleive]

the problem with integrating software + hardware is that when the hardware fails the software does not know it. (this is a forever problem since hardware & software were paired up)
you can build in all the redundancy you want and it can still fail.
you can't fix stupid, hardware is stupid.
going electric eliminates a lot of hardware but not all
the software does not open a door, hardware does.
here is a simple google
do salty roads affect a tesla?
It's science. The problem is, Tesla recently discovered corrosion from road salt could cause havoc with a critical power steering mechanism on its Model X vehicles. Salt can cause the power steering assist feature to stop working and increase the risk of a crash.Feb 14, 2020
you can argue that this can happen with a ice vehicle as well
the problem is we are heading face first into the unknown
software is not going to know if a bolt is loose, or if a capacitor failed.
batteries can and do fail without warning.
computers crash without warning.

 

[Fless]

the problem with integrating software + hardware is that when the hardware fails the software does not know it. (this is a forever problem since hardware & software were paired up)
you can build in all the redundancy you want and it can still fail.
you can't fix stupid, hardware is stupid.
going electric eliminates a lot of hardware but not all
the software does not open a door, hardware does.
here a simple google
do salty roads affect a tesla?
It's science. The problem is, Tesla recently discovered corrosion from road salt could cause havoc with a critical power steering mechanism on its Model X vehicles. Salt can cause the power steering assist feature to stop working and increase the risk of a crash.Feb 14, 2020
you can argue that this can happen with a ice vehicle as well
the problem is we are heading face first into the unknown
software is not going to know if a bolt is loose, or if a capacitor failed.
batteries can and do fail without warning.
computers crash without warning.

@Doubeleive's positive uplifting message for the day.

 

[Doubeleive]

@Doubeleive's positive uplifting message for the day.

I just don't know if I can fully trust a computer to drive me, it's scary enough with me behind the wheel.
i guess I might like to see it coming maybe? not really sure, it's like a minority report thing
like if I put on auto pilot and go on a trip on a road with a steep cliff drop off and no guardrail ummmm, ya nope

 

[Mean_Green]

To me the Plymouth Fury was a good car, as were a few others of that era. Generally reliable. You could count on it and if it took a dump, you could fix it.

I'd rather not have computers in cars at all.

 

[DuraYuk]

I just don't know if I can fully trust a computer to drive me, it's scary enough with me behind the wheel.
i guess I might like to see it coming maybe? not really sure, it's like a minority report thing
like if I put on auto pilot and go on a trip on a road with a steep cliff drop off and no guardrail ummmm, ya nope

Planes do it. Have been for decades.

 

[DuraYuk]

To me the Plymouth Fury was a good car, as were a few others of that era. Generally reliable. You could count on it and if it took a dump, you could fix it.

I'd rather not have computers in cars at all.

Carburetors suck. So did those vehicles. There's a reason so many had 45k miles with the hood open in someone's back yard.

 

[Doubeleive]

Planes do it. Have been for decades.

In a form yes, lot less computer involved and more hardware than several cars combined, and hydraulics and they do not run off of batteries yet.
and if there was as many planes in the air as there are cars we would see a lot more crashes
Pilot error is thought to account for 53% of aircraft accidents, with mechanical failure (21%) and weather conditions (11%) following behind.
what about the other 15%?
I am not trying to be negative about it, computers run nuclear power plants too
both industries are HIGHLY maintained and scrutinized from beginning to end.