Trans shift improvement kit?

[mountie]

Pretty neat to hear you knew and worked with Art Carr!

He was one of the original 200-4R high performance pioneers who innovated numerous mods and practices that enabled those transmissions to survive and thrive in drag and autocross applications with big power motors, etc...There was / is another 'Art Carr' entity out of Texas that apparently has no connection to the 'original' Art Carr out of SoCal or was a subsidiary that completely severed from the SoCal company...Not sure on the exact details but that's what I recall...

Yes, all other things equal, the faster the shift, the less designed-in slip, which is what you want so shift kits mechanically recalibrate the transmission to shift quicker to increase longevity of applied elements like friction discs and bands...Firm is a function of a combination of shift speed, fluid flow in terms of volume and clutch clearance so a firm shift will result in less slip but isn't always best as you can have too much of a good thing.

I'm in Vegas.

I was with Art Carr when he coordinated with Torco, to produce packaged transmission parts, certified & labeled as " Art Carr parts " . But.. the deal was written poorly for Art. Art accidentally sold his name to Torco inside the pages of the deal. Art could not use his name at his shop in Huntington Beach, Ca., anymore. He renamed his shop, " California Performance Transmissions". So, having said that, no not trust the "Torco - Art Carr parts". He dropped the scammy deal.

In my '88 GMC, I considered using the 200-4r tranny, but Art convinced me my 700-R4 will be stout. He built it to withstand 650 HP, all day.....

While I was there ( I, R&R'd transmissions and installed custom coolers ) .. We loaned the shop, after hours & weekends for Chip Foose's "Overhaul'n" show for a while.....

When you have a moment, you should try to contact my good friend, Kenny Youngbood, he lives in Henderson, and is quite connected in the car culture.

( photo ) .. A '66 Dodge Coronet with a 200-4r, handling a new 750 HP, 426 Hemi. I did the custom coolers for it,... then I "had" to test drive it..... Oh, my gosh !!

 

[NickTransmissions]

I was with Art Carr when he coordinated with Torco, to produce packaged transmission parts, certified & labeled as " Art Carr parts " . But.. the deal was written poorly for Art. Art accidentally sold his name to Torco inside the pages of the deal. Art could not use his name at his shop in Huntington Beach, Ca., anymore. He renamed his shop, " California Performance Transmissions". So, having said that, no not trust the "Torco - Art Carr parts". He dropped the scammy deal.

In my '88 GMC, I considered using the 200-4r tranny, but Art convinced me my 700-R4 will be stout. He built it to withstand 650 HP, all day.....

While I was there ( I, R&R'd transmissions and installed custom coolers ) .. We loaned the shop, after hours & weekends for Chip Foose's "Overhaul'n" show for a while.....

When you have a moment, you should try to contact my good friend, Kenny Youngbood, he lives in Henderson, and is quite connected in the car culture.

( photo ) .. A '66 Dodge Coronet with a 200-4r, handling a new 750 HP, 426 Hemi. I did the custom coolers for it,... then I "had" to test drive it..... Oh, my gosh !!

Cool, thanks for providing the backstory...I knew something shady went down but wasn't up on the details so didn't want to speculate but that sucks for Art.

Would be happy to contact Kenny - perhaps you can PM me his contact info and/or maybe shoot him this thread and my Youtube and maybe he and I can have an introductory conversation?
I can provide some transmission-related services for he or folks in his circle if he doesn't have anyone he uses exclusively...

Awesome looking Coronet and sick set up - looks like you do great work!!
Would love to know what went into that 200-4R, guessing re-cal kit w/billet, large-ratio servo, all sorts of VB and Gov mods, billet int shaft/HD forward drum, dual-fed direct drum w/teflon ctr support sealing rings, Raybestos blues in the direct, extra friction in the OD, fully rollerized gear train and more. I've only built a little over 50 or so of those but there's not too many builders that will even touch them...They can be very finicky and certain parts, like good direct drums, are getting very hard to find and expensive.

And yes, a lot of people don't realize it but the 700R4 and 4L60E can be built to handle serious power, so much of it is the hydraulics with some choice upgraded hard parts. Many default to the 4L80E, understandably but in many cases, either it's too big or simply not cost-effective (or both).

Good stuff, man!

 

[mountie]

Cool, thanks for providing the backstory...I knew something shady went down but wasn't up on the details so didn't want to speculate but that sucks for Art.

Would be happy to contact Kenny - perhaps you can PM me his contact info and/or maybe shoot him this thread and my Youtube and maybe he and I can have an introductory conversation?
I can provide some transmission-related services for he or folks in his circle if he doesn't have anyone he uses exclusively...

Awesome looking Coronet and sick set up - looks like you do great work!!
Would love to know what went into that 200-4R, guessing re-cal kit w/billet, large-ratio servo, all sorts of VB and Gov mods, billet int shaft/HD forward drum, dual-fed direct drum w/teflon ctr support sealing rings, Raybestos blues in the direct, extra friction in the OD, fully rollerized gear train and more. I've only built a little over 50 or so of those but there's not too many builders that will even touch them...They can be very finicky and certain parts, like good direct drums, are getting very hard to find and expensive.

And yes, a lot of people don't realize it but the 700R4 and 4L60E can be built to handle serious power, so much of it is the hydraulics with some choice upgraded hard parts. Many default to the 4L80E, understandably but in many cases, either it's too big or simply not cost-effective (or both).

Good stuff, man!

Kenny is hooked up with most all the hot rod & drag racers. Ask about him at the Vegas shops. If you are good, maybe they can use your talents??

 

[Meathead16]

Lol, sounds like that guy had a B&M kit installed (they are a 100% total waste of money).

For beginners, I like the SK4L60E which is what the OP should install if he takes on the build himself...If he outsources the work to a transmission shop, the main thing for him is due diligence when it come to picking the right shop to work with...

I would want to do the rebuild myself. Logistically speaking, I may have to take it to a shop, which in all honestly petrifies me. Not having a trustworthy place to take my car to was the main reason I started learning how to do it all myself. I live in an apt complex that doesn't allow vehicle work, and I'm limited to a jack and stands. It's also my dd, and a big thing is I'd need down time to be as little as possible so I can get to work. I'm not sure if me doing it myself with the time the learning curve will add will take will compare to a shop that may or may not take their time with it.

Is there anything specific I should be looking for from a shop? Any specific questions that could indicate their ability (or lack thereof?) I know to check for their certifications, etc. and their reviews online and elsewhere. Asking them to explain the entire process, get it all in writing on a work order, and clarify their warranty procedures from the start. I'd let them know I want the old parts back to make sure they put new parts in.. I've thought about asking for the packaging for the new parts but didn't know if this was pushing it. I'm sure they understand to a degree being checked up on but at some point human nature is going to take over and they'll start to feel offended at the insinuation and perhaps not treat the job as well as they otherwise would have, even if subconsciously.

Do you use customer provided parts? Or is it easier for you to source it all yourself? If I provide the parts I know what's going in, but if they get the parts I figure they would be working with what they are used to? Though if adequately knowledgeable they should be able to use any parts.

Maybe I'll buy a transmission jack and go for it.. I'm starting to stress over the thought of dropping it off already lol

How much you generally charge for a rebuild? Vegas is only 4.5 hours away from me.. ha

 

[mountie]

I would want to do the rebuild myself. Logistically speaking, I may have to take it to a shop, which in all honestly petrifies me. Not having a trustworthy place to take my car to was the main reason I started learning how to do it all myself. I live in an apt complex that doesn't allow vehicle work, and I'm limited to a jack and stands. It's also my dd, and a big thing is I'd need down time to be as little as possible so I can get to work. I'm not sure if me doing it myself with the time the learning curve will add will take will compare to a shop that may or may not take their time with it.

Is there anything specific I should be looking for from a shop? Any specific questions that could indicate their ability (or lack thereof?) I know to check for their certifications, etc. and their reviews online and elsewhere. Asking them to explain the entire process, get it all in writing on a work order, and clarify their warranty procedures from the start. I'd let them know I want the old parts back to make sure they put new parts in.. I've thought about asking for the packaging for the new parts but didn't know if this was pushing it. I'm sure they understand to a degree being checked up on but at some point human nature is going to take over and they'll start to feel offended at the insinuation and perhaps not treat the job as well as they otherwise would have, even if subconsciously.

Do you use customer provided parts? Or is it easier for you to source it all yourself? If I provide the parts I know what's going in, but if they get the parts I figure they would be working with what they are used to? Though if adequately knowledgeable they should be able to use any parts.

Maybe I'll buy a transmission jack and go for it.. I'm starting to stress over the thought of dropping it off already lol

How much you generally charge for a rebuild? Vegas is only 4.5 hours away from me.. ha

Look for an "old-school" transmission shop...... Go the 'speed shop' store in your area, I can bet they know the good-honest guys... Search for local race team shops....
STAY AWAY FROM THE FRANCHISE SHOPS.....

 

[mountie]

At Art Carr's shop..... A customer had a late '70's Chevy Blazer 4x4... He built an automatic transmission but it shifted manually. ( Almost like a sequential shifter ).... It was weird to test drive it, when you came to a stop, you had to shift it into 1st..... then shift as needed. It was really cool !

 

[NickTransmissions]

I would want to do the rebuild myself. Logistically speaking, I may have to take it to a shop, which in all honestly petrifies me. Not having a trustworthy place to take my car to was the main reason I started learning how to do it all myself. I live in an apt complex that doesn't allow vehicle work, and I'm limited to a jack and stands. It's also my dd, and a big thing is I'd need down time to be as little as possible so I can get to work. I'm not sure if me doing it myself with the time the learning curve will add will take will compare to a shop that may or may not take their time with it.

Is there anything specific I should be looking for from a shop? Any specific questions that could indicate their ability (or lack thereof?) I know to check for their certifications, etc. and their reviews online and elsewhere. Asking them to explain the entire process, get it all in writing on a work order, and clarify their warranty procedures from the start. I'd let them know I want the old parts back to make sure they put new parts in.. I've thought about asking for the packaging for the new parts but didn't know if this was pushing it. I'm sure they understand to a degree being checked up on but at some point human nature is going to take over and they'll start to feel offended at the insinuation and perhaps not treat the job as well as they otherwise would have, even if subconsciously.

Do you use customer provided parts? Or is it easier for you to source it all yourself? If I provide the parts I know what's going in, but if they get the parts I figure they would be working with what they are used to? Though if adequately knowledgeable they should be able to use any parts.

Maybe I'll buy a transmission jack and go for it.. I'm starting to stress over the thought of dropping it off already lol

How much you generally charge for a rebuild? Vegas is only 4.5 hours away from me.. ha

If you're only 4.5 hours from me, it may be worth it for us to talk...I have customers that come from all over the region, including folks in San Diego, LA-Bakersfield, Phoenix, Kingman, St George, northern Nevada, etc...

Generally, when shopping for a transmission rebuilder, you want work with someone that wants to work with you, meaning they are patient and thoroughly answer your questions. They should also ask questions of their own (beyond the obvious stuff), including how you use the vehicle, any engine or drive train mods, goals and preferences when it comes to the transmission. Additionally, they should demonstrate a high level of proficiency with the transmission you would be asking them to work on. Knowledgable builders will not only know specifically what happend with your transmission (i.e. the direct cause of your drivability symptoms) but also parts/procedures that must be included in the rebuild to proactively address common design weaknesses/pattern failures associated with a particular type of transmission. All of that should be communicated to you in a straight-forward manner.

Most of us do not use customer-provided parts unless it's a special order part (i.e. a billet output shaft or drum) that either the customer already has or want's to purchase on their own. In most cases, parts like that will cost me the same amount of money as the customer and I usually don't have an issue with it as long as I know they know what to buy...Conversely, I won't use things like overhaul kits, commonly replaced parts or electronics as it is usually not cost effective for the customer to provide those parts, plus if they go bad it's on the customer to deal with whomever they purchased from and won't otherwise be covered under my warranty...I have extensive relationships with suppliers in my network so if a part goes south shortly after rebuild causing the trans to come back, I know I can get it exchanged and repair the unit under warranty for the customer without he or me coming out of pocket for it.

Some shops are particular about giving back used parts but if one of mine requested any bad parts back, I'd have no problem doing so - I'll just throw them in a plastic bag and say 'here you go' once they pick up the rebuilt trans. They're your parts, technically speaking, so I really don't have any reason to not give them back if you want...But if you do want them back, simply let the shop know upfront as we usually toss or send everything to the scrap yard the same day or the very next.

If you want to chat with me about possibly rebuilding your transmission, shoot me a PM with your name, phone number and a good time to call you on Monday or Tuesday and we can go from there.

 

[NoReverseYukon]

@Meathead16
If this is your daily, your best bet would be to have a shop pre-build/re-build a tranny to the specs you want while you continue driving your truck. Then schedule an appt. to swap them - should be a 1-day operation.

 

[Sithlord]

I was on rockauto and noticed they had a number of "Shift Improvement Kit's" available.. all by TransGo. It caught my eye because it was highlighted and in bold font signifying it was a commonly purchased item. The claims made in the product descriptions sound rather promising. I'm leery though as from how they are described, it sounds like one can be installed and then all the 4l60/65e woes of the world become a thing of the past. Seeing as it is a commonly purchased item maybe there's something to it though.

Are these shift kits the real deal? Do they really deliver on what they claim?

If so, is it something that should be installed early on in the transmissions life before any issues have a chance to develop rather than at say 230k miles? The odo on my EXT is just about there, and I have no idea what kind of life this 4L65e had prior to 215k miles. I believe it's the original, I doubt it's been rebuilt, but can't say for certain. Anything I could do to keep the tranny going longer I'm eager to do. I don't want to be so eager that I do something that I believed to be beneficial only to make things much worse.

I was looking around reading up on the corvette servo swap, and that it seems to get the thumbs up all around but also came across some people saying it's great early on, but do it in a high mileage trans and it can really do some damage. Is it something that I should still consider or scrap the idea?

I did a filter and fluid change when I got the truck, oil was dark, but didn't smell burned. There was a looooooot of junk in the pan. I didn't see any chunks of metal or anything, it was just that "slurry" of material, but the entire bottom of the pan was covered with it. I hadn't found this site yet and figured I've changed fluid/filter before no problem, albiet on a small car, and just jumped right into it... the exhaust got in the way.. yada yada.. got the pan off and on, but I may or may not have (definitely) made repetative contact with a couple solenoids along the way. Am wondering if I did any damage to them and would be worth changing out, they're cheap enough and I was considering a fluid change soon anyway..

I'm mulling over all of this because it's obvious something is up. I have the hard 1-2 shift, the 2-3 shift flare, and the 3-4 shift slips. It always clunks hard into reverse.. almost like a shift when line pressure is really high, and sometimes when I go to pass it seems to hunt for the gear.. If i'm cruising at 45mph, give it some throttle i'll make it to around 3000rpms, then instead of downshifting it might slowly climb to 3200, chill there in limbo for a second, then downshift with some oompf behind it. The 3-4 shift also feels like it makes 2 half shifts rather than one complete one. It'll start the shift, it feels like it shifted but not quite right, then a second or two later complete the shft. Or is this a complete 3-4 shift and then the TC locking up? I've never really known precisely what it felt like when the TCC was engaging, disengaging, etc. Is there any difference between that and a shift? One interesting thing to note is that after awhile driving it all the above issues decrease in severity. Little by little but they improve dramatically compared to day 1 and say.. day 45. Day 1 being battery was disconnected. Driving it after the pcm loses it's learned adjustments is miserable. The flare is outrageous, the slippage is intense.. but after a few days it becomes managable and after a few weeks they are barely noticeable... for the most part. If it was a mechanical issue, or burned up clutch wouldn't adjustments made by the pcm be futile? Could it be an electrical gremlin making things worse? I've always heard mechanical issues happen everytime, electrical issues are more dynamic.I have noticed that trans temp affects its behavior. When it's 150 it's happy.. when it reaches 200, which is always does when I use the a/c without fail (want to swap efans in for this reason, that and ac sucks at idle, and when it's 115 out....), every issue is more pronounced.

Didn't mean to ramble on but my knowledge is sparse and my questions are many. My previous car died prematurely due to my ignorance, and I don't want this one to follow suit. I appreciate any and all insight.

Not sure what your budget is but check out Monster transmission. They have rebuild kits and replacement transmissions

 

[Mudsport96]

A 4l60e isn't too terrible to do, but patience is key. I usually do all of my own transmissions, but the last 4l60e for my Silverado I outsourced. Being in January and my usual indoor spot occupied I called the guy my family uses. Told him I found much debris in the pan and thought the band was bad and mileage on the truck and he agreed. Couldn't beat the price for him to do all the work, as at the time it was going to cost me nearly as much to so it myself. (Covid parts scarcity price gouging). Plus he gives a killer warranty. It's been a few years but if I remember it was like 50k miles unlimited time. And now that the daughter only drives it to college and back, it has taken 4 years to put 15k on it lol.
He did an "autopsy" and said he didn't know how it even drove to his shop. Apparently, the 2-4 band was completely "bald".