2017 Escalade versus 2016 Tahoe for Towing

[RobH]

My 2016 Tahoe LT has the NHT Max Towing Package and 135K miles with a GM re-manufactured 6L80E a year ago at 125K miles. Two years and 90,000 miles to go on the factory warranty. In south Texas, snow is not an issue. I like that it is 2WD with the locking differential instead of 4WD. I put Michelin Defender LTX tires on it last year. It has new brake pads and rotors front and rear last month.

I currently tow a 3,300 pound 17 ft Casita occasionally, but am considering a trip to Alaska and back this summer. I might replace the 3,300 pound Casita with a larger 4,500-5,000 pound travel trailer after the Alaska trip.

I'm from the old no substitute for cubic inches school. When towing, I cruise at 2,000 RPM in 5th. I keep my 5.3 liter V8 to 2.500 RPM and 13 PSI manifold pressure going up hills. That means slowing and downshifting into 4th or 3rd going over a pass in the Rockies. I have a Scan Gauge II for manifold pressure.

A lady at church is fixing to sell her husband's 2017 Escalade 4WD with 37,000 miles. I expect that it has the 6.2 liter with the 8 speed transmission. I can get the axle ratios. The bigger engine and lower mileage are attractive. The 4WD and more complicated systems are not. Although I can afford the used bling Escalade, a more utiltarian Chevy Tahoe with 18 inch painted wheels is more my self-image than an Escalade with 20-22 inch chrome wheels.

I understand Escalades do not have the factory integrated trailer brake controller my 2016 has and also does not have the integrated heavy duty trailer hitch. I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow. I'll get the VIN so that I can get an equipment printout at a GM parts counter.

My question is how likely the 2017 Escalade's 8 speed transmission is to have problems. For my 6l80E, my understanding is that the problems are caused by temps and a weak torque converter/clutch (TCC) assembly with stamped steel parts and thin friction material. I do have the transmission service bulletin 21-NA-199 specified replacement 70C/158F thermal bypass valve (TBV - thermostat) on my re-manufactured 6L80E transmission. It's now running forty Fahrenheit degrees cooler. Are there similar known upgrades for the 8 speed transmission to make it last without worries on a trip from south Texas to Alaska and back? Does the 2017 eight speed transmission have a better service history than the 2015-2016 eight speeds?

How much trouble is it to add a trailer brake controller and 2 inch receiver hitch to the Escalade?

Thanks in advance for the Forum's expertise.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Long story shorter:
6.2L & 8L90E can get away with less than 3.42 axle gear and still tow with less effort,
possibly getting similar if not better MpG during the tow trip.
You can always make the Escalade look a bit more humble and less gaudy with painted 18" wheels.
Suspensions always appreciate an unsprung weight reduction.

For both the 6L80E & 8L90E, changing the ATF more often than GM recommends is underrated.

You're already aware of the 6L80E's major weakness: its TCC.
What most don't get is the the 6L80E's programming is the other part of its weakness;
6L90Es use the same TCC, yet, different / better programming helps it last longer under greater duress.

As for the 8L90E, earlier versions of Dexron HP LV were too hygroscopic, leading to 8L90E's notorious shudder.
Again, change the ATF more often than GM says.

 

[RobH]

For the 2017 Escalade knowledgeable, she reports it's a Platinum, but didn't bring it to church this morning. So, I haven't seen if it has an integrated trailer brake controller or heavy duty integrated receiver hitch.

Pro's: it has a 6.2 liter engine, 100K less mileage and an eight speed transmission.

Cons: it has Magnetic Ride Control, CUE electronic system, 4WD, and an eight speed transmission.

Mitigation: I can get a Circle D or other torque converter, an auxiliary transmission cooler, and a tune to disable the AFM and improve transmission pressure management to improve the eight speed transmission life.

Cons: hassle/expense to replace the torque converter, and I'll still have the Magnetic Ride Control, CUE system, and 4WD.

I don't like having to deal with the involved electronic controls that work the way some systems analyst/programmer decided they should work instead of how I want them to work.

I think that I'm better off staying with my 2016 Tahoe LT with two years and 85,000 miles left on the warranty on the GM reman 6L80E transmission than starting over with a different vehicle that seems to be designed more for trips to the country club than hauling a trailer to Alaska and back.

I use the Tahoe transmission manual mode with the up down shift all the time. I haven't been able to confirm whether the Escalade has this capability. I also haven't checked if the Escalade has a sunroof. I dislike sunroofs.

I expect there are some people out there with experience with Escalades and towing, or maybe not. Please chime in if you have personal knowledge of the Escalade's trailering capabilities.

 

[Marky Dissod]

It's an Escalade. Is it 4WD? or AWD?

 

[91RS]

The Escalade can have a trailer brake controller if the option was picked, all of them have a 2” receiver, the 6.2L will tow significantly better, the 8 speeds don’t need the torque converter replaced, you can manually select gears. I’m not sure why you think an Escalade would be less capable towing because it has more features? Drive it and if the 8 speed shifts decent, it’s fine. Get the fluid flushed at the dealer and specifically ask for the GM 8 speed flush with Mobil 1 fluid, not BG fluid or other brand.

 

[91RS]

It's an Escalade. Is it 4WD? or AWD?

K2 no longer has full time AWD. They have an auto 4WD selection, but it is a bad idea to use it on dry pavement.

 

[B-train]

I have the same drivetrain in my 2017 denali. I love it. The 8 speed is more of a PITA to service than the 6 speed. Once you flush out the OEM fluid (I would HIGHLY recommend this) with the updated version, you'll be fine.

A friend of mine has been a GM master tech for 30 years and does TONS of engine and trans work. He said the 8 speed is quite robust and doesn't have the TC issues of the 6 speed. I asked him about the temp bulletin on the 6 speed and he said it's not an issue with the 8 speed.

I had the fluid flushed per the TSB at 42k. I have then had it serviced every 40 - 45k since and it's still a Rockstar at 151k.

Drive sensibly (as you do), and stay up on the maintenance (like the old school ways used to be) and you'll be fine.

If that thing is a reasonable price, I'd jump on that escalade! Do as @Marky Dissod stated and put some nice GM 18 inch wheels on it - it will ride better and look good. The other suspension things I wouldn't worry about with 37K. You live in a rust free area, they will last just fine. Same with the 4wd - it's a completely selectable system and is easy to service when needed.

 

[RobH]

It's an Escalade. Is it 4WD? or AWD?

I believe that it is 4WD. I'll know this afternoon after I take the VIN to my nearest GM parts counter and get a printout of of all the equipment and options.

Thanks everyone for your info.

 

[RobH]

. . . I’m not sure why you think an Escalade would be less capable towing because it has more features? . . .

My experience with fancier cars is that fixing the fancier systems is expensive. We bought a 2006 Mercury Gran Marquis LS with the Handling and Performance Package equivalent to the Crown Vic police package. Nice car.

The throttle body position sensor failed a couple of thousand miles out of the 36K warranty. It wasn't a part which was held on the throttle body by a couple of removable screws the way it used to be. No, the entire throttle body had to be replaced as an "assembly". The sensor attachment screws had a weak spot so that they would break and leave the end of the screw in the throttle body. Then it would be a drill it out, tap for an oversize screw, etc.

At about 60,000 miles, the automatic HVAC system computer control module failed. That was expensive. I later passed the car to my brother and his wife. Same thing happened to them.

I have lots of other examples of problems with modern fancy systems which were expensive to repair compared to old school manual systems.

Hence my aversion to fancy cars. Especially when I read about a transmission class action suit, magnetic ride control problems, Que system problems, etc. And the Escalade Platinum has all of the expensive stuff GM could conceive of to help/improve the driver's experience. Like a dash mounted rotary switch which electronically controls the 4WD transfer case instead of an armstrong manual lever on the transmission tunnel controlled 4WD transfer case like fifty years ago. Oh well.

 

[91RS]

You probably shouldn’t even have your Tahoe if modern “fancy systems” bother you so much. The K2 Tahoe and Escalade aren’t that much different under the skin. Pretty much everything has had electronic throttle bodies since the early to mid 2000’s. “Manual” AC has not been manual since then either for the most part, it just doesn’t have the temp sensors but the rest of the system is basically identical. The “manual” control head just doesn’t have a screen. That Tahoe of yours probably has 20 modules in it.