blueflamed03
Supporting Member
have your 60e built to a 65e.
4L60E Behind a Mild 454 ?
- Thread starter Busted Knuckles
- Start date
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retorq
Full Access Member
400 + an overdrive unit ...
or 80e + a manual shift valve body
or 80e + a manual shift valve body
steamroller
Full Access Member
NV4500, say no to the slushboxes. Your left foot and right arm is your standalone controller lol.
The only real mod that would have to be done if yours is 4wd is the input gear on the transfer case needs to be switched to a 32 spline or you could do like I did and just stick in a manual t case with the appropriate input. Same length as a 4l60e so the same driveshafts and crossmember can be used. I probably have about $1400 in my swap with the bulk of that being the trans itself, all the hydraulics, flywheel and clutch are new.
http://www.nv4500.com/newsdesk_info.php/newsPath/12/newsdesk_id/30
http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/nv4500.htm
The only real mod that would have to be done if yours is 4wd is the input gear on the transfer case needs to be switched to a 32 spline or you could do like I did and just stick in a manual t case with the appropriate input. Same length as a 4l60e so the same driveshafts and crossmember can be used. I probably have about $1400 in my swap with the bulk of that being the trans itself, all the hydraulics, flywheel and clutch are new.
http://www.nv4500.com/newsdesk_info.php/newsPath/12/newsdesk_id/30
http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/nv4500.htm
OP
OP
Busted Knuckles
Member
That's another great Idea Matt . If I get back to Nevada this year a manual would be the ticket ! Can't wait to get out and do some real off roading again . Missouri is too closed off . All the land is pretty much private owned in these parts . Nevada ,,,,
WIDE OPEN !
I found some fantastic "runs" using Google Earth near where we'll be . Starting out at around 5,000' altitude and crossing mountains just shy of 10,000 ' .
I don't do well with fences etc.
Thanks again .
---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------
I'll do that ! There's a Pick-n-Pull/Pick-a-Part/U-Wrench-It somewhere up around you .
I picked up a 200r4 for a Buick a few years ago in the Saint. Louis yard .
All total less than $150.00 .
Steve
WIDE OPEN !
I found some fantastic "runs" using Google Earth near where we'll be . Starting out at around 5,000' altitude and crossing mountains just shy of 10,000 ' .
I don't do well with fences etc.
Thanks again .
---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------
If you come up to KC wave as you drive through!! I'll wave back
I'll do that ! There's a Pick-n-Pull/Pick-a-Part/U-Wrench-It somewhere up around you .
I picked up a 200r4 for a Buick a few years ago in the Saint. Louis yard .
All total less than $150.00 .
Steve
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You're right about that. It's about 10 minutes from my house I was up there a little bit when building my 77
I was up there a little bit when building my 77
OP
OP
Busted Knuckles
Member
454/ Tranny Swap .
Hey "Roller" ,
Thanks for the links .
I breezed the links you listed .
I'm a bit confused , Will the NV4500 Bell Housing from a GM Donor bolt to the 454 bolt pattern ? How about the Flywheel will it need an adaptor to bolt to the crankshaft ?
You also mentioned a Manual Valve Body for a 4L80E . Will that eliminate the need for the computer portion ?
Thanks,
Steve
Hey "Roller" ,
Thanks for the links .
I breezed the links you listed .
I'm a bit confused , Will the NV4500 Bell Housing from a GM Donor bolt to the 454 bolt pattern ? How about the Flywheel will it need an adaptor to bolt to the crankshaft ?
You also mentioned a Manual Valve Body for a 4L80E . Will that eliminate the need for the computer portion ?
Thanks,
Steve
steamroller
Full Access Member
No problem on the links there's tons of info on them but those go over the high points more or less.
They put them in big block/small block and diesel trucks so it shouldn't be a problem at all as far as bellhousing to engine pattern goes.
What they are referring to in that article is the 4 bolt trans to bellhousing pattern.
The removable bellhousing is NV4500 specific so no other trans will bolt up to it and vice versa. Simple answer is just make sure you get the bellhousing with the trans and you'll be good.
I think you would be able to just use a flywheel from your year engine and a clutch from a 92-95 or 96-2000 BBC depending on what type of slave cylinder setup it is.
In 96 they went to an internal slave which is what I used but 92-95 it was external and located on the passenger side of the bellhousing..... Both are hydraulic so no linkages and such to mess with.
I'm not real familiar with the big blocks so I don't know if there are rear main seal differences or not like there is with the small blocks.
retourq mentioned the manual valve body for the 4L80e, I understand how that works but don't know if you would lose the lockup function or not? Maybe he can chime in since I haven't really looked into it.
TCI and a few others sell the standalone controllers that retain all the functions and allow you to mess with the settings. Not cheap but definitely an option for a carbed application.
You may also be able to rig up a TPS sensor on the Qjet and and the PCM flashed to control the trans. Theres a guy on another forum that did this with a small block and a couple different carbs... 1 was a Demon and the other an Edelbrock.
I just wouldn't mess with a 4L60E, the costs of upgrading or replacing it with a ''built'' piece aren't worth it in my opinion.
If GM thought they would last behind a big block they wouldve put them there begin with.
Sure they put the 65E behind some of the higher powered LS engines but they also castrated them with torque management.
I guess I should do a small writeup on my swap while it's still fresh on my mind.... I don't have alot of pictures but overall it was a very simple swap and I would do it again it a heartbeat. They're really simple trans and if it ever needs a rebuild I feel I could do it myself ..... I wouldn't even attempt it with an auto.
Sorry for the novel lol, I tend to get long winded on some of this stuff
They put them in big block/small block and diesel trucks so it shouldn't be a problem at all as far as bellhousing to engine pattern goes.
What they are referring to in that article is the 4 bolt trans to bellhousing pattern.
The removable bellhousing is NV4500 specific so no other trans will bolt up to it and vice versa. Simple answer is just make sure you get the bellhousing with the trans and you'll be good.
I think you would be able to just use a flywheel from your year engine and a clutch from a 92-95 or 96-2000 BBC depending on what type of slave cylinder setup it is.
In 96 they went to an internal slave which is what I used but 92-95 it was external and located on the passenger side of the bellhousing..... Both are hydraulic so no linkages and such to mess with.
I'm not real familiar with the big blocks so I don't know if there are rear main seal differences or not like there is with the small blocks.
retourq mentioned the manual valve body for the 4L80e, I understand how that works but don't know if you would lose the lockup function or not? Maybe he can chime in since I haven't really looked into it.
TCI and a few others sell the standalone controllers that retain all the functions and allow you to mess with the settings. Not cheap but definitely an option for a carbed application.
You may also be able to rig up a TPS sensor on the Qjet and and the PCM flashed to control the trans. Theres a guy on another forum that did this with a small block and a couple different carbs... 1 was a Demon and the other an Edelbrock.
I just wouldn't mess with a 4L60E, the costs of upgrading or replacing it with a ''built'' piece aren't worth it in my opinion.
If GM thought they would last behind a big block they wouldve put them there begin with.
Sure they put the 65E behind some of the higher powered LS engines but they also castrated them with torque management.
I guess I should do a small writeup on my swap while it's still fresh on my mind.... I don't have alot of pictures but overall it was a very simple swap and I would do it again it a heartbeat. They're really simple trans and if it ever needs a rebuild I feel I could do it myself ..... I wouldn't even attempt it with an auto.
Sorry for the novel lol, I tend to get long winded on some of this stuff
OP
OP
Busted Knuckles
Member
No Novel far as I'm concerned . In fact excellant ! When a major Drive Train Swap is in the works it's best to go into it knowing everything you can , especially if you're going to a "Boneyard" or two for the parts . I've never cracked an auto open other than a shift kit for 74' LT back in 82' and a couple of front pumps just to see the guts . I'd do one if I knew I had the right tools or a way to make them .
The original question here was how to make the trans stand up to the additional torque.
The other half of that answer is what is the trans trying to move. Having experimented with many forms of the “built” 4l60e, I would make the suggestion that it depends on the weight of the vehicle.
I have two vehicles with roughly 700 hp at the crank. They both had the same “built” 4L60e trans. One of them kept breaking and the other lives to this day.
The Trans that lives is in a Camaro where the rear wheels can spin as the circuit breaker when being stressed. The one that broke several times, was in the Tahoe that weighed an additional 3,000 pounds and the rear wheels resisted spinning as much as the Camaro.
The solution of course was the 4L80e for the Tahoe. The only major mod to the 4L80e was the input shaft, and a trans brake. Running stock pressure settings, the 4L80e, chirps the big tires shifting into third which is very different from a 4L60e.
The bottom line is, even if you build up a 4L60e with all the speed parts and run the pressures up to squeeze the clutches tighter, it can’t take it when struggling against a 6,000 pound truck for very long. The 4L80e on the other hand is not even breaking a sweat for the same workout.
Just my .02……………
The other half of that answer is what is the trans trying to move. Having experimented with many forms of the “built” 4l60e, I would make the suggestion that it depends on the weight of the vehicle.
I have two vehicles with roughly 700 hp at the crank. They both had the same “built” 4L60e trans. One of them kept breaking and the other lives to this day.
The Trans that lives is in a Camaro where the rear wheels can spin as the circuit breaker when being stressed. The one that broke several times, was in the Tahoe that weighed an additional 3,000 pounds and the rear wheels resisted spinning as much as the Camaro.
The solution of course was the 4L80e for the Tahoe. The only major mod to the 4L80e was the input shaft, and a trans brake. Running stock pressure settings, the 4L80e, chirps the big tires shifting into third which is very different from a 4L60e.
The bottom line is, even if you build up a 4L60e with all the speed parts and run the pressures up to squeeze the clutches tighter, it can’t take it when struggling against a 6,000 pound truck for very long. The 4L80e on the other hand is not even breaking a sweat for the same workout.
Just my .02……………
OP
OP
Busted Knuckles
Member
Thanks Del ,
I'm running a 4dr. 96 Tahoe , pretty well stock . Bar the Ignition/Air system/exhaust/Tru-Trak rear diff. (like to get a Tru-Trak for the front) and a new set of 10ply Good Year Wrangler Authority's . When I set out on a serious run I probably come in around 7k weight wise fully loaded .
The 5.7 is getting lazy after 190k . That's why I got this 78' 454 . I drove it home for $400.00 . I'll open it up cam wise , intake/carb/ign./exhaust . Ideally I'd like to do a "roller" engine .
The road we're on here in Mo. is an old farm road that dates back to 1840 . It's full of rocks/ruts/creeks to cross in the wet seaon as well as the hills at either end of the valley (Holler) . Our neighbors 2010 Silverado 4x4 had to be towed 1/2 mile up the hill to get out in the ice/snow last month . I've learned that trucks don't have enough ass end weight to pull out of the ice we get . We've never been stuck down here . I've had to chain up both ends for 2 weeks after the 08' Ice Storm on my 94' F/S Bronco .
Our neighbors wife took their Hemi Ram across one creek a bit too fast and sucked water into the engine . Even with all the plugs out the engine would not turn over by hand . She crunched every Rod in the engine ! The air intake on those sits above the bumper . Playing in the creek I've got videos of the water hitting and going over the roof . So I tend to build for reliability and fun !
I hear you on the 4l60E . It's like putting a stock 200thm behind a built 455 Buick . It's a Grenade looking for a place to go off . One good stab or hard launch and it's lunch , with a "side" of shrapnel ! I may go after the NV4500 . I still can't get past the stand-alone controller on the 4L80E . Tell you the truth ,I kind of want to get rid of all ECM crap all together . Places that I do my 4x'ing is not kind to anything,and having a major electrical SNAFU in the outback could have serious consequences .
The High Desert is unforgiving to stupidity . The more mechanical than electrical in your rig is better , your chances of making the run sucessfully is alot higher . That leaves alot of time to enjoy the ride . Out there the only way to call out is a Sat. Phone . I've been pricing those as well .Damn are they expensive !
So here we have another reality check about building a tranny that was never designed to go extreme when others out there can be had stock or minor improvements .
Steve
I'm running a 4dr. 96 Tahoe , pretty well stock . Bar the Ignition/Air system/exhaust/Tru-Trak rear diff. (like to get a Tru-Trak for the front) and a new set of 10ply Good Year Wrangler Authority's . When I set out on a serious run I probably come in around 7k weight wise fully loaded .
The 5.7 is getting lazy after 190k . That's why I got this 78' 454 . I drove it home for $400.00 . I'll open it up cam wise , intake/carb/ign./exhaust . Ideally I'd like to do a "roller" engine .
The road we're on here in Mo. is an old farm road that dates back to 1840 . It's full of rocks/ruts/creeks to cross in the wet seaon as well as the hills at either end of the valley (Holler) . Our neighbors 2010 Silverado 4x4 had to be towed 1/2 mile up the hill to get out in the ice/snow last month . I've learned that trucks don't have enough ass end weight to pull out of the ice we get . We've never been stuck down here . I've had to chain up both ends for 2 weeks after the 08' Ice Storm on my 94' F/S Bronco .
Our neighbors wife took their Hemi Ram across one creek a bit too fast and sucked water into the engine . Even with all the plugs out the engine would not turn over by hand . She crunched every Rod in the engine ! The air intake on those sits above the bumper . Playing in the creek I've got videos of the water hitting and going over the roof . So I tend to build for reliability and fun !
I hear you on the 4l60E . It's like putting a stock 200thm behind a built 455 Buick . It's a Grenade looking for a place to go off . One good stab or hard launch and it's lunch , with a "side" of shrapnel ! I may go after the NV4500 . I still can't get past the stand-alone controller on the 4L80E . Tell you the truth ,I kind of want to get rid of all ECM crap all together . Places that I do my 4x'ing is not kind to anything,and having a major electrical SNAFU in the outback could have serious consequences .
The High Desert is unforgiving to stupidity . The more mechanical than electrical in your rig is better , your chances of making the run sucessfully is alot higher . That leaves alot of time to enjoy the ride . Out there the only way to call out is a Sat. Phone . I've been pricing those as well .Damn are they expensive !
So here we have another reality check about building a tranny that was never designed to go extreme when others out there can be had stock or minor improvements .
Steve
