6.2L or Duramax reliability

[DuraYuk]

This part

isn't true at all when you factor in the emissions being forced upon the baby diesels.

The above isn't scare tactics, these baby diesels are full of costly bits and when they fail they are expensive.

My wife's denali just has the turbo replaced (under warranty); with warranty $0, without $2100. My ecoDiesel has had SCR's replaced twice; I believe those were $1800 each visit.

Warranty is the friend of a baby diesel.

The same is true of gas engines. You had a problem. Turbos are not a diesel only trait, and a very low failure point in the lm2. What about lifters in the v8s? That is a costly repair outside of warranty. What about catalytic converters (some diesels dont have them and those that do don't fail with the regularity that gas ones do)? The list goes on and on. Diesel emissions components are not complex. The parts are not any more cost prohibitive when compared to their gasoline counterparts. And in most cases last longer.

 

[steiny93]

The same is true of gas engines. You had a problem. Turbos are not a diesel only trait, and a very low failure point in the lm2. What about lifters in the v8s? That is a costly repair outside of warranty. What about catalytic converters (some diesels dont have them and those that do don't fail with the regularity that gas ones do)? The list goes on and on. Diesel emissions components are not complex. The parts are not any more cost prohibitive when compared to their gasoline counterparts. And in most cases last longer.

We are comparing the 6.2 vs the 3.0 (no turbo on the gaser).
The diesel emissions are more complex (regens, def injection, egr's that are cooled); none of which are on the gasers.
Lifters in the v8, they are a wash to a SCR replacement in regard to cost. Ditto to a belt replace in the diesel at 200k, except it's guaranteed in the diesel.

I like the baby diesels (I have a pair of them) but lets not be complete fan boys here.

 

[DuraYuk]

We are comparing the 6.2 vs the 3.0 (no turbo on the gaser).
The diesel emissions are more complex (regens, def injection, egr's that are cooled); none of which are on the gasers.
Lifters in the v8, they are a wash to a SCR replacement in regard to cost. Ditto to a belt replace in the diesel at 200k, except it's guaranteed in the diesel.

I like the baby diesels (I have a pair of them) but lets not be complete fan boys here.

6.2 v8s are grenading in some lifter failures. So outside that warranty that has huge negative side. Im not just talking lm2. Diesels in general are no more expensive then gassers. Spark plugs and coils are also another failure point on gassers. Scr? Child's play https://dieselforum.org/selective-catalytic-reduction-scr

Not many lm2's stranded. But tons of 6.2s stranded and immobile for months.

Emmission controls on diesels are not some extreme cost. Def is a simple injector. A simple tank and level sensor. Same with particulate filter. These components will fail early if they do under warranty.

I just find it funny how it's supposed to be expensive. Simple machines with simple components. Similar to mechanics who charge more or won't work on European cars. Fake stereotypes.

It all comes down to fuel cost. Up north and west diesel fuel is more expensive. And most gas techs won't touch a diesel so qualified labor is potentially harder to locate.

 

[steiny93]

6.2 v8s are grenading in some lifter failures. So outside that warranty that has huge negative side. Im not just talking lm2. Diesels in general are no more expensive then gassers. Spark plugs and coils are also another failure point on gassers. Scr? Child's play https://dieselforum.org/selective-catalytic-reduction-scr

Not many lm2's stranded. But tons of 6.2s stranded and immobile for months.

Emmission controls on diesels are not some extreme cost. Def is a simple injector. A simple tank and level sensor. Same with particulate filter. These components will fail early if they do under warranty.

I just find it funny how it's supposed to be expensive. Simple machines with simple components. Similar to mechanics who charge more or won't work on European cars. Fake stereotypes.

It all comes down to fuel cost. Up north and west diesel fuel is more expensive. And most gas techs won't touch a diesel so qualified labor is potentially harder to locate.

GMC would disagree with you.
6.2's engine assembly from GM is $4297, the diesel is $5294. The engines are absolutely more expensive (per GM 23%). My local dealers have a higher labor rate for diesel tech's.
I'm not sure how you can argue that the diesel option isn't more expensive, even GMC thinks they are.

Considering the 2 baby diesels I currently own they both have had multiple thousand dollar repairs to either engine or emission system (covered under warranty).
Considering the last 10 5.3'a & 6.2's I own or have owned; if I add up all their warranty claims I didn't have any engine or emission repair costs.

I'm gonna agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Vladimir2306]

6.2 v8s are grenading in some lifter failures. So outside that warranty that has huge negative side. Im not just talking lm2. Diesels in general are no more expensive then gassers. Spark plugs and coils are also another failure point on gassers. Scr? Child's play https://dieselforum.org/selective-catalytic-reduction-scr

Not many lm2's stranded. But tons of 6.2s stranded and immobile for months.

Emmission controls on diesels are not some extreme cost. Def is a simple injector. A simple tank and level sensor. Same with particulate filter. These components will fail early if they do under warranty.

I just find it funny how it's supposed to be expensive. Simple machines with simple components. Similar to mechanics who charge more or won't work on European cars. Fake stereotypes.

It all comes down to fuel cost. Up north and west diesel fuel is more expensive. And most gas techs won't touch a diesel so qualified labor is potentially harder to locate.

DEF is not a simple injector, it's still a somewhat more complicated system. and unfortunately on many passenger cars, not only on GM, this thing makes the owner brains. And most often the level sensor fails. It would seem a funny detail, but it most often comes complete with a pump, and its repair is expensive. Because otherwise it blocks the engine. Therefore, most often, owners of diesel cars turn off DEF and drive without it, smelling worse than a tractor for the whole district.

 

[DuraYuk]

GMC would disagree with you.
6.2's engine assembly from GM is $4297, the diesel is $5294. The engines are absolutely more expensive (per GM 23%). My local dealers have a higher labor rate for diesel tech's.
I'm not sure how you can argue that the diesel option isn't more expensive, even GMC thinks they are.

Considering the 2 baby diesels I currently own they both have had multiple thousand dollar repairs to either engine or emission system (covered under warranty).
Considering the last 10 5.3'a & 6.2's I own or have owned; if I add up all their warranty claims I didn't have any engine or emission repair costs.

I'm gonna agree to disagree on this one.

No worries. You seem to be in the minority with issues in regard to your lm2. I do remember some of you posts. Id imagine there was some misdiagnosing involved. Engine cost is irrelevant if one blows up consistently and another doesn't.

 

[DuraYuk]

DEF is not a simple injector, it's still a somewhat more complicated system. and unfortunately on many passenger cars, not only on GM, this thing makes the owner brains. And most often the level sensor fails. It would seem a funny detail, but it most often comes complete with a pump, and its repair is expensive. Because otherwise it blocks the engine. Therefore, most often, owners of diesel cars turn off DEF and drive without it, smelling worse than a tractor for the whole district.

It's a pretty simple system. And in the states defeating diesel emmissions can land you in hot water really quickly..

 

[Polo08816]

GMC would disagree with you.
6.2's engine assembly from GM is $4297, the diesel is $5294. The engines are absolutely more expensive (per GM 23%). My local dealers have a higher labor rate for diesel tech's.
I'm not sure how you can argue that the diesel option isn't more expensive, even GMC thinks they are.

Considering the 2 baby diesels I currently own they both have had multiple thousand dollar repairs to either engine or emission system (covered under warranty).
Considering the last 10 5.3'a & 6.2's I own or have owned; if I add up all their warranty claims I didn't have any engine or emission repair costs.

I'm gonna agree to disagree on this one.

Those costs are just for the long or short block right? It doesn't include the other components like the turbos, emissions systems, etc. that the diesel powertrain would require.

I think at the end of the day, I don't think many people are going to agree with the "turbocharged diesel powertrains are as simple as naturally aspirated gasoline powertrains" theory.

...which is to say, I agree with you.

 

[DuraYuk]

Those costs are just for the long or short block right? It doesn't include the other components like the turbos, emissions systems, etc. that the diesel powertrain would require.

I think at the end of the day, I don't think many people are going to agree with the "turbocharged diesel powertrains are as simple as naturally aspirated gasoline powertrains" theory.

...which is to say, I agree with you.

You may disagree but the reality is a diesel trades some gas specific components for some diesel specific components. Those diesel parts are simpler and more robust. Emissions components seem like a boogey man but are largely over hyped when the systems are pretty simple.

And in terms of this post the 6.2 being a pushrod v8 should be very simple and reliable. But the current track record of blown motors and spun bearings and failed lifters paints a picture to the contrary. OP already made their choice so we are just pissing in the wind.

Goodish discussion tho.

 

[Polo08816]

You may disagree but the reality is a diesel trades some gas specific components for some diesel specific components. Those diesel parts are simpler and more robust. Emissions components seem like a boogey man but are largely over hyped when the systems are pretty simple.

And in terms of this post the 6.2 being a pushrod v8 should be very simple and reliable. But the current track record of blown motors and spun bearings and failed lifters paints a picture to the contrary. OP already made their choice so we are just pissing in the wind.

Goodish discussion tho.

I think there's a bit of minimization going on here. I don't think you can characterize a turbo charged diesel powertrain as, "Oh, we just substituted (but did NOT add) some components around from this naturally aspirated gas powertrain for this turbocharged diesel powertrain." I don't think the majority of the people following this thread would agree with that either.

GM simply f'd up the design and execution of the 6.2L V8 gas engine. There's no way that should be less reliable than the current 3.5 EcoBoost but alas, it is. Heck, it's arguably less reliable than the current Ford's DOHC 5.0 Coyote engine. Don't get me wrong, Ford has had their fair share of problems on their 3.5EB and 5.0 Coyote through the years, but those are largely reliable powertrains at the moment. Because the 6.2L V8 is primarily a GM f up, that doesn't mean that turbocharged diesel powertrains are just as simple as naturally aspirated gas engines (or even turbocharged gas engines).