Low oil pressure at idle, pulling my hair out, looking for any and all options.

[Levin37]

So it started about a year ago, once engine gets to operating temp (coolant needle straight up), the traction/stability light would come on, indicating an issue and then shortly after a p0011 code, “A” Camshaft Position Timing Over Advanced or System Performance Bank 1. Nothing would change in drivability it would just hinder my ability to use my remote start, if I forgot to clear the code, and of course loss of my stability and traction control. I would just reset the code end of day and all good, but I wanted to solve it for good so I wouldn't have to be doing that all winter. I bought a new Camshaft Position Sensor from Rock Auto and installed mid Oct. It was a pain, and took 2 days as it broke off coming out. Truck was ok the next day, not prefect but drivable so I drove it all day and had an oil change done at a quick lube place as it was close to being due. This is when all hell broke loose. Drove the truck home from there, something was off, stumbling idle, drop in oil pressure, misfiring, engine went into limp mode. Got it to my local garage and they suggested maybe the wrong oil was put in or they put in a high mileage additive or something (they deny both). So they suggested dump the oil, switch to standard oil to flush it out and then back to synthetic. Ran it for a week or so and the oil pressure was better but still dropped at idle, causing the vehicle to shake and almost stall. Started running 91/93 gas as to not cause any further detonation issues when pressure drops way down. Had it flushed again and back to synthetic. Oil pressure better yet again, but once the vehicle gets warmed up the pressure starts dropping at idle and then traction/stability lights like clockwork and then the P0011. Garage suggested an issue with the VVT system and quoted $1300 to pull it all apart but no guarantees. I decided to have them change the cam solenoid behind the water pump and see what happened. No real change. Truck still gets perfect oil pressure but once warmed up it drops. So with extensive reading of this forums I figured it had to be the oil pickup tube o-ring, ordered a new Melling pickup, o-rings and a high pressure/high volume pump. Garage quoted $1500 to change the pump and pickup, suggested only changing the pickup as the oil pump never goes bad in an LS, and pressure is great (until is isn't). So paid $700 for that as the oil pan gasket had to changed as well. Oil pressure better than ever, but after a day the same issues once warmed up, pressure doesn't drop as much but same codes and sometimes surging/vehicle shaking like its gonna stall. Further forum reading suggested the valley cover gasket, 8 o-rings that could all be leaking pressure. So I bought a new after market one, designed for AFM/DOD delete (of which I have neither), along with new intake manifold gaskets and valve cover gaskets as they were seeping a bit. Pulled it all apart last weekend, all went back together well, cleaned everything up real nice, valves, springs, lifters all look good, appears to be minor scoring on the cam journals from what I could see below the valley cover. Oil pressure sensor was new last year and I don't have the screen below it. Truck drove great Mon, didn't drive far but oil pressure best its ever been. But Tues all back to normal, once the coolant needle points up, traction/stability lights and then the P0011. Random surging/rumbling at idle and oil pressure gets real low, not as low as before but low, truck is drivable but annoying. Now my question for everyone is how to proceed. I have read that once you get the P0011 code and it cant be solved then the engine is end of life, source a new one and swap it out. I'm looking into a few now, rebuilt and crate. But can this be solved without a full swap? is it a worn cam issue? Should I buy an aftermarket cam, either VVT with the limiter or swap to non-VVT to eliminate the whole subsystem causing the issue. Is the issue with the VVT caused by a further low oil pressure issue or is the VVT system causing the low oil pressure. I was positive once I solved the low pressure the P0011 would never come back but I have exhausted my resources. I have a tech2 so I can get exact readings but haven't used it much yet so not sure how to send VVT requests etc. Any and all input welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Geotrash]

Do you have access to a Tech2 to get all of the codes from the ECM, BCM and TCM? Also, the camshaft position sensor may require a crankshaft position variation relearn. Did you perform that procedure after you replaced the sensor?

I suspect that your problem isn't oil pressure at this point, but something still wrong with the VVT system. Doing a relearn will take one potential source off the table. The VVT actuator uses several datapoints to determine if/how much to change the cam angle:

Engine speed
Manifold absolute pressure (MAP)
Throttle position angle
Camshaft position sensor (CMP)
Crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
Crankshaft/camshaft correlation
Engine coolant temperature (ECT)
Closed loop fuel control
Engine oil pressure (EOP)
Engine oil level
CMP actuator solenoid circuit state

My educated guess is that since you're only experiencing the problem when the coolant is up to temp (required for the VVT system to start moving the cam) that it's not returning to the parked position like it should. Lack of oil pressure can be one cause of that (which I don't suspect in your case), as could a bad return spring in the actuator assembly or bad correlation data between the cam and crank position.

From the alldatadiy manual:

CMP Actuator System Performance Diagnostic

The engine control module (ECM) monitors the performance of the camshaft position (CMP) actuator system by monitoring the calibrated desired position, and the actual position of the camshaft, through the 4X signal of the CMP sensor. If the difference between the actual and desired position is greater than a calibrated angle, for more than a calibrated amount of time, DTC P0011 will set.

 

[Foggy]

In addition to what Geotrash says:
You may just have bad cam bearings... This will reduce oil pressure and volume
and esp oil to the VVT system which relies soley on "correct" oil pressure and viscosity
to work right.
I think your low idle and rough running is bringing the already sketchy oil pressure down
and setting codes/ causing issues
A new camshaft will not solve this issue

 

[Levin37]

Thank you for the quick replies, I really do appreciate it. I had asked the garage to preform the crank relearn when I first took it there after the sensor swap and assumed they had, regardless I have run it again with my tech2. I have also run some CMP commands with the tech2 and taken a snapshot, working on getting the TIS2000 software to work on my PC to make it easier to go through. Been meaning to subscribe to alldatadiy so just bought 3yrs. Initial snapshot plot of the CMP data shows it all over the place, desired CMP never matches the actual angle, with variance all over the place. Not sure what to check next, Ill keep reviewing the data and snapshot while driving around tomorrow. Actuator solenoid was already changed, should I be looking into changing the VVT Sprocket? I've also read that the Cam bearings could be shot, Ill tear down this engine at some point and put it in my Jag, so maybe a new engine is coming soon, I rely on this truck for work and need it reliable.

 

[Geotrash]

Just to be clear, did you change the actuator:



And/or the magnet:



Or both?

 

[Levin37]

Both were replaced, here's the Rockauto order, I used the standard motor over the Dorman.

 

[zissou]

I'm in the same boat as you with my 07 with 230k. I've been battling a P0011 code. My oil pressure is actually pretty great and the truck honestly runs phenomenally. 80% of the time its Stabilitrak/Traction lights only that come on. 20% of the time it triggers a CEL. Either way, a P0011 code is stored intermittently (when only ST/TC lights come on) or fixed code when it triggers the CEL also.

As it relates to attempts to solve the P0011, I've replaced the VVT magnet, the actuator, camshaft position sensor, and that 5-pin harness for the CPS and magnet. The phaser is the one part I have not. I can either take one more $125 gamble -- and the hassle of pulling the water pump off yet again -- and put in a new phaser.

Or say screw it and get rid of VVT for the cost of a VVT delete kit ($150-250 depending on how much of the timing set I want to do "while you're in there") plus the cost of a non-VVT camshaft (and thus new valve springs and tuning in all reasonable cases).

Because of the good oil pressure in the engine, I'm not too concerned just yet about the root cause being the camshaft bearings. So I'll start with 1 of the 2 paths above.

Sounds like you are in the same train of thought right now too. Keep us posted and I'll share my findings as I progress.

As for the behavior of my P0011, it comes on like clockwork. I regularly make a trip where I start the truck and drive about 5 miles at 35mph, 5 miles at 50mph, then 25 miles at 80mph on the interstate, then 2 miles at 35mph at my exit. It is like clockwork that my Stabilitrak/Traction light will come on during that final 2 mile 35mph drive.

 

[Geotrash]

I'm in the same boat as you with my 07 with 230k. I've been battling a P0011 code. My oil pressure is actually pretty great and the truck honestly runs phenomenally. 80% of the time its Stabilitrak/Traction lights only that come on. 20% of the time it triggers a CEL. Either way, a P0011 code is stored intermittently (when only ST/TC lights come on) or fixed code when it triggers the CEL also.

As it relates to attempts to solve the P0011, I've replaced the VVT magnet, the actuator, camshaft position sensor, and that 5-pin harness for the CPS and magnet. The phaser is the one part I have not. I can either take one more $125 gamble -- and the hassle of pulling the water pump off yet again -- and put in a new phaser.

Or say screw it and get rid of VVT for the cost of a VVT delete kit ($150-250 depending on how much of the timing set I want to do "while you're in there") plus the cost of a non-VVT camshaft (and thus new valve springs and tuning in all reasonable cases).

Because of the good oil pressure in the engine, I'm not too concerned just yet about the root cause being the camshaft bearings. So I'll start with 1 of the 2 paths above.

Sounds like you are in the same train of thought right now too. Keep us posted and I'll share my findings as I progress.

As for the behavior of my P0011, it comes on like clockwork. I regularly make a trip where I start the truck and drive about 5 miles at 35mph, 5 miles at 50mph, then 25 miles at 80mph on the interstate, then 2 miles at 35mph at my exit. It is like clockwork that my Stabilitrak/Traction light will come on during that final 2 mile 35mph drive.

If you decide to go the cam replacement route, it’s a great time to upgrade to a little bigger cam. If you choose one designed specifically for the 6.2, you can see gains of 50 HP + torque, still keep a smooth idle and not miss VVT. I did this in my 2012 and am very happy with the results.

 

[zissou]

If you decide to go the cam replacement route, it’s a great time to upgrade to a little bigger cam. If you choose one designed specifically for the 6.2, you can see gains of 50 HP + torque, still keep a smooth idle and not miss VVT. I did this in my 2012 and am very happy with the results.

I found your old build thread last night and am convinced on the Cam Motion route for a 6.2 specific cam, except I'd just do a low lift Stage 1 as I don't want to mess with valves right now. BB also isn't far from me so I'd probably end up going that route too. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am to go the VVT delete route and never look back.

Anyways, don't want to derail the thread too much. There are so many P0011 threads out there but almost none of them ever come to a solution, they just end with the OP going MIA.

 

[zissou]

While I'm not a fan of oil additives, I did drain out a qt of oil and added a bottle of Lucas Pure Synthetic Oil Stabilizer in the interim to see if boosting up the oil viscosity helped as an experiment. Well, it has. Driven about 250 miles and given the truck plenty of chances to trigger the Stabilitrak and P0011 code and it has not. This is the only thing that has worked so far. Perhaps running 10W-30 would work the same.

This likely means my cam bearings are a little worn and the oil pressure isn't quite enough [when the 5W-30 oil is hot and thin] to operate the VVT properly. Since the engine is running fine at 230k, I see no reason to really worry about cam bearings right now and just carry on by deleting the VVT.

Feels like progress.