NHTSA opens preliminary probe into more than 870,000 GM vehicles

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Stbentoak

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If 0W-20 is so bad, why aren't 3.0 Duramax's failing too? Have read many reports of them exceeding 150K miles with no engine/oil related issues, including regular towing....
 

blanchard7684

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If 0W-20 is so bad, why aren't 3.0 Duramax's failing too? Have read many reports of them exceeding 150K miles with no engine/oil related issues, including regular towing....

This is a good question.

Different bearing design is likely to the case. The 3.0 makes 90% of its torque below 1250 rpm. Static loading is sensitive to bearing width by a cubic factor.

The ecoboost has high torque output at low rpm, but it specs 5w30...
 

jfoj

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The 3.0l Duramax is a different animal, it should be designed for Low RPM/High Torque operation. Torque pec for the LM2 is 460 ft/lbs Torque at 1500 RPM, the LZ0 is 495 fl/lbs Torque at 2750 RPM.

The L87 6.2l is designed as a higher RPM motor. Torque Spec is 460 ft/lbs @ 4100 RPM. However the L87 6.2l rarely runs above 2000 RPM in my experience. On the surface this looks like a non issue, however, with the 10 speed transmission and the Torque the 6.2l puts out at lower RPM, the engine is often operating at 90+ plus actual torque at RPM ranges between 1200-1700 in these larger trucks based on how they are configured. This puts an extreme load on the engine components, oil film and even sets up a perfect storm for Low Speed Pre Ignition (LSPI). I am working on gathering some data on how the 6.2l behaves on the highway pulling gradual grades. What I am seeing is a bit disturbing with engine Torque loads over 50% for a good portion of the drives and peaks up to 95% at 1600 RPM. This clearly shows the 6.2l is behaving more like a Diesel than a typical gas engine in these trucks. Base on preliminary info on the 5.3l engines, they do not generate near the amount of low end Torque and the trucks are confirgured to downshift and the engines tend to operate at higher RPM's when pulling inclines and grades.

The L87 would be much happier operating at 2500+ most of the time, but due to fuel ecomony requirements, this is not in the cards for this engine in these 6000 bricks. I have not seen the levels of failures in the smaller vehicles using the same basic 6.2l configuration.

Again, the basic gasoline V8 design has typicaly been for higher RPM operation than Diesels. Diesels tend to have design considerations to support very Low RPM/High Torque operation, probably larger/wider connection rods, larger bearing journals, larger and wider bearings and so forth. Diesels also are not impacted by LSPI as they are not spark ignition engines, so this alone could be a big difference in the heavier vehicles.

Based on some of my conversations with oil analysis staff, they are telling me 0W20 is not an ideal oil for the Duramax. I assume this is based on lab testing results, the Duramax engines do not appear to be failing catasphopically like the 6.2l, they may be showing elevated signs of bearing wear that may only show up in much higher mileage situations? I also assume fuel dilution of the engine oil is also a consideration for the Duramax as well which would reduce the oil viscosity at the miles accumulate on the engine oil. I did not get into a detailed conversation about the Duramax as I am mainly focused on the 6.2l engines. Just passing on what I was told.
 

Doubeleive

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Omg. Lol. Not the gubment!
ya because there is no such thing as CAFE or the EPA, and there is no consideration to mandate 0-20 by 2027 or that is was previously considered earlier but was pushed back and.....
funny thing many other owners manuals in countries outside the USA "may" recommend 0-20 but also state that other viscosities are also acceptable given the intended use and clearly state that 0-20 is more or less for economy.
also it is a pretty well known fact that when engines wear and when those tolerances are no longer within spec a higher grade oil can help prevent oil consumption
gee I wonder why that happens.......
high mileage engine oil? omg lol
 

jfoj

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Put the transmission in L7!! 1.00 gear ratio, but mileage will suffer!
 

jfoj

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I really did not want to put this specific graph out due to it only being for a period of 2 minutes driving somewhat just outside of town with a few peaks.I am trying to find time and the place to obtain more data. This will hopefully give an idea about the engine loading that is occuring. But look at the RPM, no more than 1500 RPM for the peak calculated engine load at or over 80%. This means the transmission was probably not in 10th gear at these speeds.

My Yukon pretty much runs around 1200 RPM at 55 MPH and 1400 RPM at 65 MPH and unless the grade is faily steep, the transmission rarely downshifts. The engine Torque usually just pushes the vehicle along with very little RPM change when hitting inclines. So the engine is getting heavily loaded at lower RPMs on a regular and sometimes sustained basis.

I have not had time to hit the road and find the right conditions to generate a longer graph with more sustained engine loading, I have watched it happen on many occations in real time, did not have the data logging set up to caputure it at that time. I have been rather shocked/surprised at some of the engine loading I have been seeing and for how long it is occuring while cruising on the highway.

I am sure there will be some comments, yes this graph is for 6.2l not the 3.0l Diesel!!

Engine Load Speed RPM.jpg
 

Stbentoak

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This is a good question.

Different bearing design is likely to the case. The 3.0 makes 90% of its torque below 1250 rpm. Static loading is sensitive to bearing width by a cubic factor.

The ecoboost has high torque output at low rpm, but it specs 5w30...
I'll be the first to agree that 0W 20 oil is thin, super thin..... a lot thinner than I would really like to run. But I'm not willing to take any chances on warranty. I'll error on the side of changing it a little more often than necessary. See where that takes us.....
 

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