OEM Style fog light install issues

[Old Dirt Driver]

Wondering if anyone has tried to add the Spyder brand, OEM fog light kit to a PPV? It includes the lights, OEM type switch, and the wiring with a diagram showing where to connect for power in the fuse box under hood.
I just added one last week to my 2011, and it does not power up. Is there a need to make changes in the BCM for the switch to function? I have not been able to follow up with a more in depth diagnosis of the system, but it does appear to have power at the fog light relay, but not through the fuse. I thought I would try this forum before spending too much time tracing it down on my own. Even if I could locate the wiring diagrams for these areas I could figure it out.

As a side note to this. I also added a pair of manual slide out towing mirrors that have power mirror, defrosters, LED park /turn lights. The power mirror option is working fine, but the defrosters, and LED lights do not work.
I know there is some wiring probably not in the PPV for these, and the switch is different. Has anyone added the power/heated/lighted mirrors, and know what parts to add so they will work? I'm using this to tow a 14' enclosed trailer for my Micro Sprint race car, so it would be nice to have all the features working!

Thanks to anyone who can help.

 

[Ron C]

Wondering if anyone has tried to add the Spyder brand, OEM fog light kit to a PPV? It includes the lights, OEM type switch, and the wiring with a diagram showing where to connect for power in the fuse box under hood.
I just added one last week to my 2011, and it does not power up. Is there a need to make changes in the BCM for the switch to function? I have not been able to follow up with a more in depth diagnosis of the system, but it does appear to have power at the fog light relay, but not through the fuse. I thought I would try this forum before spending too much time tracing it down on my own. Even if I could locate the wiring diagrams for these areas I could figure it out.

As a side note to this. I also added a pair of manual slide out towing mirrors that have power mirror, defrosters, LED park /turn lights. The power mirror option is working fine, but the defrosters, and LED lights do not work.
I know there is some wiring probably not in the PPV for these, and the switch is different. Has anyone added the power/heated/lighted mirrors, and know what parts to add so they will work? I'm using this to tow a 14' enclosed trailer for my Micro Sprint race car, so it would be nice to have all the features working!

Thanks to anyone who can help.

From what I understand, in a PPV, the wiring is used differently which causes the foglights not to come on. A few weeks ago I was talking to a dealer, about these lights, and he said there for sure is an issue with police vehicles on it (has to do with emergency lights??). According to the dealer most SSVs would be ok, but I rather double check to see if it actually is. (else there's always the completely seperate circuit idea)

 

[PG01]

There was a post about having to connect a wire in the fuse block under hood... maybe a brown wire....i just don’t remember when or what section/year

 

[Old Dirt Driver]

From what I understand, in a PPV, the wiring is used differently which causes the foglights not to come on. A few weeks ago I was talking to a dealer, about these lights, and he said there for sure is an issue with police vehicles on it (has to do with emergency lights??). According to the dealer most SSVs would be ok, but I rather double check to see if it actually is. (else there's always the completely seperate circuit idea)

OK, Thanks for that info. I'm doing some research on that to confirm what they did, and how to get around it. I have some contacts in the up fitter industry that might be able to help me with it. I'll update this post once I hear back from him.

 

[Ron C]

OK, Thanks for that info. I'm doing some research on that to confirm what they did, and how to get around it. I have some contacts in the up fitter industry that might be able to help me with it. I'll update this post once I hear back from him.

It is pretty easy to get around it, Jeep people do it all the time.

Just get an extra relay, mount it somewhere in the engine compartment and run a power wire through that relais. Then from the switch, find a 'hot' wire and run it through the switch to control the relay with. Make sure you don't short anything with the "control circuit" the wire that controls your relais.

That should work, and is done on older Jeeps (AMCs) all the time, since they bearly have anything electric, lights, screen wipers and power for radio, if you're lucky

 

[kbuskill]

OK, Thanks for that info. I'm doing some research on that to confirm what they did, and how to get around it. I have some contacts in the up fitter industry that might be able to help me with it. I'll update this post once I hear back from him.

It is pretty easy to get around it, Jeep people do it all the time.

Just get an extra relay, mount it somewhere in the engine compartment and run a power wire through that relais. Then from the switch, find a 'hot' wire and run it through the switch to control the relay with. Make sure you don't short anything with the "control circuit" the wire that controls your relais.

That should work, and is done on older Jeeps (AMCs) all the time, since they bearly have anything electric, lights, screen wipers and power for radio, if you're lucky

All of this is great assuming the fog light switch isn't a momentary switch, which I believe it is.

The option would, more than likely, need to be programmed into the BCM. GM usually wires there switches to trigger a ground rather than a positive so there is less potential to short things out. The BCM receives the ground, from the "trigger" wire of the switch, as a signal to turn on device "X" and a second push of the button/momentary switch sends another ground signal through the "trigger" wire to the BCM which is programmed to turn off device "X" when it receives the second impulse signal.

It is basically a highly sophisticated latching relay in a sense.

In my opinion you have a couple options if you want to use the stock fog light switch.

Test the wiring and switch with a DVOM to see if it is infact a momentary switch... I would bet good money that it is.

If it is not a momentary switch, wire it up as Ron suggested. Just remember that your signal/trigger from the switch will more than likely be a ground so wire it up accordingly at the relay. If you attempt to run 12v through the switch it will get hot and fry the circuit board inside... don't ask me how I know.

If it is, in fact, a momentary switch then you can pay the dealer to turn the fog light option ON in the BCM, which will probably cost you $100-$150 I am guessing. This is assuming, of course, that the PPVs have the correct locations in the fuse box to support fogs, and not being used for something else as was suggested.

OR

Get a 4 prong Bosch style relay, as Ron suggested, and add a DEI 611T latching relay in between the switch and the Bosch style relay. This way the 4 prong relay is carrying the higher amperage of the fog lights and the 611T is just turning on and off the other relay. You can set up the 611T to have a positive or negative input and also a positive or negative output, along with some other functions which do not pertain to this application such as timed delay triggering etc.

Anyway the 611T is only about $20 and you can take pride in doing it yourself and sticking it to "the man" by not paying the stealership... lol

Here is a link for the 611T :
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/131134857260

I purchased mine from this seller when I repurposed my heated windshield washer fluid button, which was no longer functional thanks to a recall due to fire risk, to control my 42" LED light bar that I mounted behind the lower grill of my Burb.

I hope this helps... sorry for all the words... lol

 

[Old Dirt Driver]

All of this is great assuming the fog light switch isn't a momentary switch, which I believe it is.

The option would, more than likely, need to be programmed into the BCM. GM usually wires there switches to trigger a ground rather than a positive so there is less potential to short things out. The BCM receives the ground, from the "trigger" wire of the switch, as a signal to turn on device "X" and a second push of the button/momentary switch sends another ground signal through the "trigger" wire to the BCM which is programmed to turn off device "X" when it receives the second impulse signal.

It is basically a highly sophisticated latching relay in a sense.

In my opinion you have a couple options if you want to use the stock fog light switch.

Test the wiring and switch with a DVOM to see if it is infact a momentary switch... I would bet good money that it is.

If it is not a momentary switch, wire it up as Ron suggested. Just remember that your signal/trigger from the switch will more than likely be a ground so wire it up accordingly at the relay. If you attempt to run 12v through the switch it will get hot and fry the circuit board inside... don't ask me how I know.

If it is, in fact, a momentary switch then you can pay the dealer to turn the fog light option ON in the BCM, which will probably cost you $100-$150 I am guessing. This is assuming, of course, that the PPVs have the correct locations in the fuse box to support fogs, and not being used for something else as was suggested.

OR

Get a 4 prong Bosch style relay, as Ron suggested, and add a DEI 611T latching relay in between the switch and the Bosch style relay. This way the 4 prong relay is carrying the higher amperage of the fog lights and the 611T is just turning on and off the other relay. You can set up the 611T to have a positive or negative input and also a positive or negative output, along with some other functions which do not pertain to this application such as timed delay triggering etc.

Anyway the 611T is only about $20 and you can take pride in doing it yourself and sticking it to "the man" by not paying the stealership... lol

Here is a link for the 611T :
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/131134857260

I purchased mine from this seller when I repurposed my heated windshield washer fluid button, which was no longer functional thanks to a recall due to fire risk, to control my 42" LED light bar that I mounted behind the lower grill of my Burb.

I hope this helps... sorry for all the words... lol

Thanks for the input Ron & Ken. Ken, you are absolutely correct about the switching in the fog switch. It is a momentary to ground for BCM activation. I do like your option of using the 611T module, and still using the factory switch/button. I hadn't thought of using one of these for something like this to work around the BCM. I think we used these in the K-9 vehicle installations for the door poppers that allowed the officer to release the dog when not in the vehicle.

I think from the research I've done to this point. The issue with the fogs in a PPV, might be due to the factory installed head/tail light flashers installed for law enforcement applications. This control unit takes over the BCM to allow flashing functions of the fore mentioned lights, but allows an override capacity for brake lights when in use to maintain the safety aspects needed. I'm still working to confirm these thoughts, but your idea could work until I get that confirmed and tested.

As a side note to anyone reading this thread. I believe that most domestic vehicles, from 06 and on, are using an advanced CAN style BCM/ECM units. With this said, anyone making changes to any thing on their vehicle should always verify the operation of the area they are trying to modify. This newer technology is not just a positive source 12v to a load and then a ground. lots of bad things happen when you do this. I was a Public Safety Upfitter when this era of vehicle came online, and it caused a lot of very expensive learning lessons for people, including myself. There is of course usually a work around out there, but research your upgrades well before jumping wires and adding anything to a factory wiring circuit.

On this fog light issue I'm trying to figure out, the OEM wiring diagram actually states in the "NOTES:" section of the diagram, for certain wires in the system: "length must stay as marked due to voltage drop requirements for the BCM" It make our jobs much more difficult to add the personal touches we all like to do!

Thanks for all the words, and the thorough explanation for this work around!