Stumped with my 11' Denali Trans Issues - Helllpppp!

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usf97j4x41

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Hey folks... I have a 2011 Denali with about 188k miles on it. Last week I was out of town on vacation and when I left the car was running just fine. When I got back from vacation I went for a drive and noticed a delay in engagement between first and second gear. It's about a half second delay, causing some RPM drop, then second gear engages and everything else is normal/smooth. No issues with it popping out of gear, no grinding, etc. If I baby the hell out of it I can get it fairly smooth, but it seems to be an issue whether the car is hot or cold (although cold does seem a bit better).

I checked the fluid levels and they were fine. I swung by a shop on a Friday afternoon and dropped it off only to get the keys back that afternoon with a "your transmission is toast you need to rebuild it for 5k" - I asked what exactly was wrong with it and he said there was a "pressure code." He didn't charge me, which was a bit suspect and makes me think he was just out to sell a new trans. I had been checking for codes on my code reader at multiple points and I never saw any transmission-related codes.

Fast forward, took it home, dropped the pan... fluid perfectly clean and no metal shavings on the magnet. I dropped the valve body down and separated the TEHCM. I immediately noticed that 2 of the 4 laminate diaphragms were cracked. I went ahead and replaced all 4 with the Sonnax replacement parts. Ran low pressure air through all 4 and they seemed to hold. I checked resistance on the pressure switch and they all read within the proper range. However, I realize now I didn't take a read on both open and close for each, only a tone check for open/close, nor did I check the readings on the solenoids. Anyway, I cleaned it back up, re-installed it, put in a new trans filter and gasket, and took it for a ride. I swear it seemed better at first (perhaps wishful thinking) but by the time I got back to the house I noticed it was doing the same exact thing again. I reset the computer just in case but still no change.

It's also worth noting that I have a P0523 oil pressure sensor code that's throwing (showing 3 times in the reader for some reason). It's been on the fritz about a month/month and a half and I went to replace it the other day the sneaky way but screwed up and nicked the wire harness which means I need to pull the damn intake manifold to replace it. At this point I probably won't bother until I know what's up with the trans... that said, I am assuming the oil pressure sensor has nothing to do with the transmission issue, because the sensor has been out a while and the trans issue is new, but again, worth noting.

At this point part of me wants to pull the TEHCM again just to make sure the diaphragms and gaskets I put in didn't shift around somehow, and I still might, but I am pretty stumped as I literally SAW the broken ones, fixed them, and thus I assumed something should have improved. I should also probably recheck just to check the readings on the solenoids as well. I'm not really sure where to go from here short of pulling the trans out of the car and breaking it apart, which isn't that much of a nightmare but I just don't have the tools/room to do it. Is there anything else I can look into short of doing that? The fact it was fine before I left it sitting a week and then it came back with this issue strikes me as really weird but I guess it could be a fluke. In any event, if I need a full rebuild I am likely just going to scrap the car, or just drive it until I can't anymore, which sucks because I was REALLY hoping to hit that 200k mark.

Thanks for any info/help ya'll can provide!


WW
 

j91z28d1

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I know almost nothing about automatic trannys. but have you see Nick's 6l80 thread and videos?

might me some info in there that helps?

 

NickTransmissions

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Hey folks... I have a 2011 Denali with about 188k miles on it. Last week I was out of town on vacation and when I left the car was running just fine. When I got back from vacation I went for a drive and noticed a delay in engagement between first and second gear. It's about a half second delay, causing some RPM drop, then second gear engages and everything else is normal/smooth. No issues with it popping out of gear, no grinding, etc. If I baby the hell out of it I can get it fairly smooth, but it seems to be an issue whether the car is hot or cold (although cold does seem a bit better).

I checked the fluid levels and they were fine. I swung by a shop on a Friday afternoon and dropped it off only to get the keys back that afternoon with a "your transmission is toast you need to rebuild it for 5k" - I asked what exactly was wrong with it and he said there was a "pressure code." He didn't charge me, which was a bit suspect and makes me think he was just out to sell a new trans. I had been checking for codes on my code reader at multiple points and I never saw any transmission-related codes.

Fast forward, took it home, dropped the pan... fluid perfectly clean and no metal shavings on the magnet. I dropped the valve body down and separated the TEHCM. I immediately noticed that 2 of the 4 laminate diaphragms were cracked. I went ahead and replaced all 4 with the Sonnax replacement parts. Ran low pressure air through all 4 and they seemed to hold. I checked resistance on the pressure switch and they all read within the proper range. However, I realize now I didn't take a read on both open and close for each, only a tone check for open/close, nor did I check the readings on the solenoids. Anyway, I cleaned it back up, re-installed it, put in a new trans filter and gasket, and took it for a ride. I swear it seemed better at first (perhaps wishful thinking) but by the time I got back to the house I noticed it was doing the same exact thing again. I reset the computer just in case but still no change.

It's also worth noting that I have a P0523 oil pressure sensor code that's throwing (showing 3 times in the reader for some reason). It's been on the fritz about a month/month and a half and I went to replace it the other day the sneaky way but screwed up and nicked the wire harness which means I need to pull the damn intake manifold to replace it. At this point I probably won't bother until I know what's up with the trans... that said, I am assuming the oil pressure sensor has nothing to do with the transmission issue, because the sensor has been out a while and the trans issue is new, but again, worth noting.

At this point part of me wants to pull the TEHCM again just to make sure the diaphragms and gaskets I put in didn't shift around somehow, and I still might, but I am pretty stumped as I literally SAW the broken ones, fixed them, and thus I assumed something should have improved. I should also probably recheck just to check the readings on the solenoids as well. I'm not really sure where to go from here short of pulling the trans out of the car and breaking it apart, which isn't that much of a nightmare but I just don't have the tools/room to do it. Is there anything else I can look into short of doing that? The fact it was fine before I left it sitting a week and then it came back with this issue strikes me as really weird but I guess it could be a fluke. In any event, if I need a full rebuild I am likely just going to scrap the car, or just drive it until I can't anymore, which sucks because I was REALLY hoping to hit that 200k mark.

Thanks for any info/help ya'll can provide!


WW
Delayed engagements can be caused by the following:

- Gear train break up (front or rear)
- Cracking/breaking 1-2-3-4 piston or leaking 3-5-R drum
- Stator and/or turbine shaft sealing rings excessively worn
- 1-2-3-4 regulator valve or 2-6 regulator valve sticking
- TEHCM (pressure switch intermittent or complete failure)
- TEHCM (force solenoid intermittent or complete failure - electrical)
- TEHCM (force solenoid intermittent or complete failure - mechanical)

Did the trans shop mention the specific "pressure" code? Was it P0761?

Its prob worth pulling the TEHCM and valve body to inspect each of your valve trains for sticking/binding valves and stuck/worn check balls. It's somewhat common to see the check balls worn, stuck in the spacer plate or migrated from their locations into adjecent worm tracks where they cause all sorts of drivability symptoms, including delayed engagements.

Install the Somnax Zip kit (parts that go to the valve body, anyway, test the TEHCM again to rule it in or out as being a problem.

After you install the zip kit into the valve body, make sure you follow the tightening sequence when reassembling the two halves and spacer plate. There's 18 bolts on the TEHCM side and 12 bolts on the side w/the harness and speed sensors. Both sides of bolts have their own independent tightening sequence.

Ill be doing a multi part video series on diagnosis, troubleshooting and installing the Zip kit starting sometime next week so will update my "6L80 Info" thread with those video links.

Meanwhile, keep us posted on what else happens with it.
 
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usf97j4x41

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Delayed engagements can be caused by the following:

- Gear train break up (front or rear)
- Cracking/breaking 1-2-3-4 piston or leaking 3-5-R drum
- Stator and/or turbine shaft sealing rings excessively worn
- 1-2-3-4 regulator valve or 2-6 regulator valve sticking
- TEHCM (pressure switch intermittent or complete failure)
- TEHCM (force solenoid intermittent or complete failure - electrical)
- TEHCM (force solenoid intermittent or complete failure - mechanical)

Did the trans shop mention the specific "pressure" code? Was it P0761?

Its prob worth pulling the TEHCM and valve body to inspect each of your valve trains for sticking/binding valves and stuck/worn check balls. It's somewhat common to see the check balls worn, stuck in the spacer plate or migrated from their locations into adjecent worm tracks where they cause all sorts of drivability symptoms, including delayed engagements.

Install the Somnax Zip kit (parts that go to the valve body, anyway, test the TEHCM again to rule it in or out as being a problem.

After you install the zip kit into the valve body, make sure you follow the tightening sequence when reassembling the two halves and spacer plate. There's 18 bolts on the TEHCM side and 12 bolts on the side w/the harness and speed sensors. Both sides of bolts have their own independent tightening sequence.

Ill be doing a multi part video series on diagnosis, troubleshooting and installing the Zip kit starting sometime next week so will update my "6L80 Info" thread with those video links.

Meanwhile, keep us posted on what else happens with it.
Nick - I appreciate the response (and all you've done on this forum - I read a bunch of your stuff last night). Regarding the code, they did not tell me and when I called back they did not have any notes in their system. I have been monitoring for 2-3 days and have not seen a single trans related code, only the oil pressure one. It was a pretty commercial shop (AAMCO) and suspect they were just after a quick $5k.

I'll plan to pull the TEHCM and valve body this evening to inspect/test. If the resistance is off that should be pretty obvious. Regarding stuck/binding valves/balls I am not entirely sure I would even notice these issues, but if something stands out I will post up.

For what it's worth, I have a reman trans shop right by my house (Street Smart Transmissions) and they can sell me a pre-programmed reman valve body and TEHCM for like 400 out the door. I noticed the Sonnax Zip kit was something like 250 so perhaps given my lack of experience in all this it may make sense to plunk down an extra 150 to get an assembly I know has been tested? Thoughts on that? If that solves the problem then $400 and some wrenching seems worthwhile.

As to the first three potential causes of DE, the only way to diagnose these would be to pull the trans from the car and break it down, correct?
 

NickTransmissions

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Nick - I appreciate the response (and all you've done on this forum - I read a bunch of your stuff last night). Regarding the code, they did not tell me and when I called back they did not have any notes in their system. I have been monitoring for 2-3 days and have not seen a single trans related code, only the oil pressure one. It was a pretty commercial shop (AAMCO) and suspect they were just after a quick $5k.

I'll plan to pull the TEHCM and valve body this evening to inspect/test. If the resistance is off that should be pretty obvious. Regarding stuck/binding valves/balls I am not entirely sure I would even notice these issues, but if something stands out I will post up.

For what it's worth, I have a reman trans shop right by my house (Street Smart Transmissions) and they can sell me a pre-programmed reman valve body and TEHCM for like 400 out the door. I noticed the Sonnax Zip kit was something like 250 so perhaps given my lack of experience in all this it may make sense to plunk down an extra 150 to get an assembly I know has been tested? Thoughts on that? If that solves the problem then $400 and some wrenching seems worthwhile.

As to the first three potential causes of DE, the only way to diagnose these would be to pull the trans from the car and break it down, correct?
Yep, most AAMCOs are worthless...Re the TEHCM testing - it will be obvious if there's a problem with any of the pressure switches or solenoids. If you find the TEHCM has to be replaced, write down the part number that's laser engraved on it and provide to Street Smart so they know which operating system needs to be loaded onto the replacement. If they offer a remanufactured valve body assembly that has been updated w/ a Sonnax or Transgo valve body kit for $150.00, I'd do it but I wouldn't buy just a stock valve body.

Lastly, the first three DE causes listed require a tear down and inspection of the transmission to positively identify/confirm and at that point you could just overhaul the unit yourself.

What code reader are you using? If it's a very basic code reader, it may not pull transmission, chassis or ABS codes but if it's a more sophisticated one then it should pull in everything stored, either at current or in the history tables.
 

NickTransmissions

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Also, when you pull the TEHCM/VB assembly of the case and put it on the bench, loosen all the other bolts on the TECHM-side of the valve body that otherwise were not removed to pull the TEHCM off. There is a specific tightening/torque sequence you need to follow upon reassembly and if the other bolts are left untouched, you wont follow the sequence. If it's not followed, you may warp the VB and cause additional drivability issues.

Here's the sequence for the TEHCM side (the other half w/the speed sensors has 12 bolts and a separate tightening/torque sequence; everything gets 71 inch lbs.
IMG_7534.jpeg
 
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usf97j4x41

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Many thanks. I assumed there was a sequence but couldn't find it so this helps tremendously... I definitely did not follow that so I'll be pulling them TEHCM/VB if for no other reason than to comply with the sequence and ensure proper torque. Where does one find the tightening sequence for the half with the sensors?

Quick update as well... I ended up buying a much higher end diagnostic tool and have been driving the truck the last couple days in my usual conditions with real time TCM data streaming. What's bizarre is not only am I not getting a code, but the transmission is shifting perfectly fine through all gears, which means either it took the car a while to relearn once I replaced the laminate diaphragms, or more likely, I have an intermittent issue. If it's the latter, wouldn't this suggest an issue with the TEHCM/VB and militate against an issue with the hard parts? Thanks again. The more I mess with this the more confused I am ‍
 
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NickTransmissions

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Many thanks. I assumed there was a sequence but couldn't find it so this helps tremendously... I definitely did not follow that so I'll be pulling them TEHCM/VB if for no other reason than to comply with the sequence and ensure proper torque. Where does one find the tightening sequence for the half with the sensors?

Quick update as well... I ended up buying a much higher end diagnostic tool and have been driving the truck the last couple days in my usual conditions with real time TCM data streaming. What's bizarre is not only am I not getting a code, but the transmission is shifting perfectly fine through all gears, which means either it took the car a while to relearn once I replaced the laminate diaphragms, or more likely I have an intermittent issue. If it's the latter, wouldn't this suggest an issue with the TECHM/VB and militate against an issue with the hard parts? Thanks again. The more I mess with the more confused I am ‍
IMG_7535.jpeg

Also, replace the filter screen for the pressure switches - never reuse the old one as the seals are worn...

My 6L80 thread has a link to the entire ATSG manual (among other links) where you can download...

To answer your question - No, not necessarily. Continue to monitor once you've completed TEHCM testing and reassembly/installation.
 

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