The New Frames

[fiatdale]

Good shops know what their doing. The repairs will be just fine if they go that route. Likewise, if the shop is good, then replacing the frame is no big deal. And its good money for the bodyman.

 

[Yukon John]

I have to say, IMO, that if this were mine I would push for vehicle replacement or have it repaired and trade out of it.

I'm a Metallurgical/Mechanical Engineer and some one would really have to do a lab quality selling job for me to buy re-shaping cold formed steel. Especially considering these trucks are rated to tow up to 8500# and allow 700# plus tongue weights.

I wouldn't feel comfortable risking my life and others betting on something being bent/re shaped to repair it...considering all of the dynamic forces acting on these trucks pulling maximum rated loads.

At a minimum and as part of the repair agreement I would demand a "Total Hold Harmless" Indemnification letter and certificate issued to ME as "Additionally Named Insured" by the shops liability insurance underwriter.

Best to stick with the GM dealer on this one...they have deeper pockets and are a bigger target.

If I were an insurance company facing this demand I would "Total" the truck and replace it with whatever satisfies you.

 

[plasticman]

I T-***** an idiot who pulled out in front of my 08 Envoy a while back. The front end was all crumpled. They wound up replacing the front frame end. It's very common apparently and body shops can get the frame ends directly from GM. The rest of the frame had about 7 hours on the frame jig and yes, that was a hydro-formed frame. The truck was right as rain when it was all done.
9 grand in total damage but nothing was reported to Carfax. Bottom line... I wouldn't use carfax as a buying decision.

GM does not make the rear frame section for the 2015, only the front section!

 

[fiatdale]

I have to say, IMO, that if this were mine I would push for vehicle replacement or have it repaired and trade out of it.

I'm a Metallurgical/Mechanical Engineer and some one would really have to do a lab quality selling job for me to buy re-shaping cold formed steel. Especially considering these trucks are rated to tow up to 8500# and allow 700# plus tongue weights.

I wouldn't feel comfortable risking my life and others betting on something being bent/re shaped to repair it...considering all of the dynamic forces acting on these trucks pulling maximum rated loads.

At a minimum and as part of the repair agreement I would demand a "Total Hold Harmless" Indemnification letter and certificate issued to ME as "Additionally Named Insured" by the shops liability insurance underwriter.

Best to stick with the GM dealer on this one...they have deeper pockets and are a bigger target.

If I were an insurance company facing this demand I would "Total" the truck and replace it with whatever satisfies you.

I completely understand what youre saying, however this is not the practice used in every shop across the country. Insurance companies and the auto makers have "approved repair methods" which they have funded the testing for to make sure the repair is just as good, if not better than it was prior to an accident. Now, whether or not the particular shop repairs things in that manner is another topic. I can vouch for our shop because we will only do approved repair methods, and have had several vehicles return to the shop after being repaired structurally, only to return from another accident, and we have never had a failed repair or one that resulted in bodily harm due to the repair.

Again - its at the shops will on how they actually perform it, but a reputable shop, especially one at a dealership should be doing things right. These repairs are made every day all over the country, and not many have issues down the road.

 

[Yukon John]

I completely understand what youre saying, however this is not the practice used in every shop across the country. Insurance companies and the auto makers have "approved repair methods" which they have funded the testing for to make sure the repair is just as good, if not better than it was prior to an accident. Now, whether or not the particular shop repairs things in that manner is another topic. I can vouch for our shop because we will only do approved repair methods, and have had several vehicles return to the shop after being repaired structurally, only to return from another accident, and we have never had a failed repair or one that resulted in bodily harm due to the repair.

Again - its at the shops will on how they actually perform it, but a reputable shop, especially one at a dealership should be doing things right. These repairs are made every day all over the country, and not many have issues down the road.

I appreciate your answer and position as I know you understand mine.

An old dog (me) can always learn new tricks LOL. My experience and training tells me that there are static and dynamic tolerances designed into all of these trucks structural members....a high end and a low end. Any process that involves straightening a bent or deformed section of frame rail will have structural differences as compared to to original strength. Blacksmiths have worked with this for centuries. Heat and directional pressure will allow re shaping to an original configuration. Those that approve these methods are aware of and accept the risks inherent to doing this and I get that....but it's a judgement call.

Now here's the tricky part. Once a segment of metal is deformed from it's original shape the molecular structure of the piece changes...they are scattered around as opposed to being in line. In order for the original alignment of molecules to be attained, an annealing process must take place using heat and pressure to re align these properties. Think of it like taking a coat hanger and flexing it back and forth until it breaks.

I guess everyone has an opinion on this but if were mine I still think I would opt for a new replacement vehicle since the truck in question was almost new anyway.

 

[massivespl]

Don't fix it and sell it as gently used on Craigslist!!! Lmao just kidding

 

[iLikeEggs]

I appreciate your answer and position as I know you understand mine.

An old dog (me) can always learn new tricks LOL. My experience and training tells me that there are static and dynamic tolerances designed into all of these trucks structural members....a high end and a low end. Any process that involves straightening a bent or deformed section of frame rail will have structural differences as compared to to original strength. Blacksmiths have worked with this for centuries. Heat and directional pressure will allow re shaping to an original configuration. Those that approve these methods are aware of and accept the risks inherent to doing this and I get that....but it's a judgement call.

Now here's the tricky part. Once a segment of metal is deformed from it's original shape the molecular structure of the piece changes...they are scattered around as opposed to being in line. In order for the original alignment of molecules to be attained, an annealing process must take place using heat and pressure to re align these properties. Think of it like taking a coat hanger and flexing it back and forth until it breaks.

I guess everyone has an opinion on this but if were mine I still think I would opt for a new replacement vehicle since the truck in question was almost new anyway.

...which is why some frames can be straightened successfully and some can not, correct? Frame jigs were invented for a reason, so that repairs can/could be made. My dad was a tool and die maker and he would have agreed with you on the technical points. Then right after that he would have went and made the repair and it would rock.

 

[fiatdale]

There arent many jigs for modern repairs, more a measuring system using a laser to certain points and a body or frame guy knowing how / where to pull to straighten the metal (using force and heat, and a big ******* hammer)

 

[iLikeEggs]

True....Love the BFH.....

 

[Tinker]

All the crash stories are coming out! might as well throw mine in.
Was hit from the back. I was stopped in traffic. Guy "didn't see we were stopped" (hmm) and hit me. He was going about 45mph driving an SUV as well. Obviously much different than this story due to speed.
Anyway, bent the frame. The insurance company did not want to insure the car with a frame repair. So they combined the cost to fix it with what they could sell it to a junk yard. That put it over the edge for them to "total it." So, that's what they did. Every state every insurance is different... but that was my experience.

Sorry to hear of your experience. Hope it works out well in the end. Cheers.