Transmission interchagability

[TollKeeper]

I concur with @NickTransmissions

Your Saab is probably identical (?) to the full-sized 4L60e because it is mated to an LS. That's not the case on the regular Envoys and Trailblazers. The difference are the input shaft 298 mm vs 300 mm, and as was noted, the Atlas bellhousing bolt pattern, and who knows what else internally. Externally they may look the same though.

I will admit, we are missing details of the donor truck. Lets not forget the Envoy came with a 4.2L I6 standard, and 5.3L V8 as a option. And the Saab came with the same engines that the Envoy came with, Standard 4.2L I6, and the optional 5.3L V8. The only difference is that some Saabs also came with the 6.0 V8, and no Envoy came with the 6.0.

The bell housing makes no difference, as it externally bolts on, and is easy to remove, and replace. Done it before.

So...How many 2000-2013 4L60Es have you rebuilt over the years??
You left this question completely unanswered.

Your Saab is in the minority and has a completely different engine belonging to a completely different engine family! Those units are completely different where it counts (as I mentioned to him in my initial reply, if you bothered to read it). The TSS wasn't integrated on a widespread basis into the V8 Gen3 SBC units until 2007 with the advent of the GMT900 platform.

The only one putting him (and anyone else reading this thread for guidance) is you!

But instead of admitting you may have mis-stated things and amend your post, you want to keep digging.

I'm not perfect and have learned A LOT MORE than I have taught since joining this forum. Additionally, there's been a few times where I've stood corrected and learned something in the process.
Perhaps you can learn to do the same, perhaps not.

Your move...

If you are too high and mighty to admit you -may- be wrong here.. thats on you. I will say you might be right. There are just to many variables that we dont know.

Please point out anything I have stated that is factually incorrect. You cant, cause it doesnt exist.

You are a transmission tech, and I get that. You have done more transmissions than I ever will, and I get that.

I am speaking from my 28 years as a GM Certified Master Tech background. I am not saying that as a superiority complex, but just to say I have been down this road. Warranty companies saving a buck on a used transmission that doesnt come with the right setup for the truck its going in, installing it only to find out its wrong, cause its not easy to see its not right externally.

All I am saying is I have been down the road on a 2005, getting the wrong tranny, and finding out its wrong. It sucks. It sucks bad.

What would make this easy is just finding out if he has a TSS. If he doesnt have one, than all this doesnt matter. If he has one, than we could be saving him time, and money.

I dont want him to have that issue.

 

[tooleyondeck]

Let's say you find an 05 4L60e from another Z71 for a good price. Until you tear it down or get it installed, it's condition is unknown. A rebuild is a good opportunity to beef it up for the long run, especially if you plan on keeping it. If you need to get back on the road and the budget allows, perhaps do both: swap it for another one while your original one is being rebuilt.

@NickTransmissions your videos have been super helpful! Transmission work has always been intimidating to me but I've learned a lot from you and other sources and I am slowly getting the ball$ to tackle a rebuild myself.

 

[NickTransmissions]

I will admit, we are missing details of the donor truck. Lets not forget the Envoy came with a 4.2L I6 standard, and 5.3L V8 as a option. And the Saab came with the same engines that the Envoy came with, Standard 4.2L I6, and the optional 5.3L V8. The only difference is that some Saabs also came with the 6.0 V8, and no Envoy came with the 6.0.

The bell housing makes no difference, as it externally bolts on, and is easy to remove, and replace. Done it before.


If you are too high and mighty to admit you -may- be wrong here.. thats on you. I will say you might be right. There are just to many variables that we dont know.

Please point out anything I have stated that is factually incorrect. You cant, cause it doesnt exist.

You are a transmission tech, and I get that. You have done more transmissions than I ever will, and I get that.

I am speaking from my 28 years as a GM Certified Master Tech background. I am not saying that as a superiority complex, but just to say I have been down this road. Warranty companies saving a buck on a used transmission that doesnt come with the right setup for the truck its going in, installing it only to find out its wrong, cause its not easy to see its not right externally.

All I am saying is I have been down the road on a 2005, getting the wrong tranny, and finding out its wrong. It sucks. It sucks bad.

What would make this easy is just finding out if he has a TSS. If he doesnt have one, than all this doesnt matter. If he has one, than we could be saving him time, and money.

I dont want him to have that issue.

He can contact any GM Dealership parts department and give the last 8 of the VIN to confirm/deny his transmission is equipped with a TSS then purchase a TSS-equipped 4L60E.

Don't make statements like, "I think most of that is incorrect" then realize you stepped in it. As a certified master tech, figured you'd extent that professional courtesy but not the first time I've been wrong about that; won't be the last either. If my post was unclear to you, ask for clarification or that I restate.

You can have the last word, I'm done w/this exchange.

 

[NickTransmissions]

Let's say you find an 05 4L60e from another Z71 for a good price. Until you tear it down or get it installed, it's condition is unknown. A rebuild is a good opportunity to beef it up for the long run, especially if you plan on keeping it. If you need to get back on the road and the budget allows, perhaps do both: swap it for another one while your original one is being rebuilt.

@NickTransmissions your videos have been super helpful! Transmission work has always been intimidating to me but I've learned a lot from you and other sources and I am slowly getting the ball$ to tackle a rebuild myself.

Yep, exactly.

I've rebuilt countless 'good used' / transplant 4L60Es that went belly up within 6 months after being installed...I know a rebuild can be out of reach for a variety of reasons but if folks can either save or take on the work themselves, they should absolutely do it.

Not sure if @stevesbermudablue is going to come back to this thread but I have a video on how to buy one of those units, things he and anyone else looking reduce the likelihood they don't come home with a dud.

 

[strutaeng]

Ah, the classical Newbie posting a question and disappearing into the Internet shadows, LoL.

Yeah, the mid-sized vehicles are tricky. That's why I had suggested sticking with a full sized 4L60e: Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, etc. Maybe even the H2.

S-10, Sonomas, Blazers, Trailblazers, Envoys, Colorados, Saabs, Express Vans, not sure what else GM put in the 4L60e, were a mix of I4, I5, I6, V6 and V8s? I will admit, I don't know much about those variants. Actually, I don't even know much on the 4L60e to begin with, just what I've read online and the basics.

...oh, they also used them on the F-bodies and Corvettes, duh.

 

[NickTransmissions]

Ah, the classical Newbie posting a question and disappearing into the Internet shadows, LoL.

Yeah, the mid-sized vehicles are tricky. That's why I had suggested sticking with a full sized 4L60e: Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, etc. Maybe even the H2.

S-10, Sonomas, Blazers, Trailblazers, Envoys, Colorados, Saabs, Express Vans, not sure what else GM put in the 4L60e, were a mix of I4, I5, I6, V6 and V8s? I will admit, I don't know much about those variants. Actually, I don't even know much on the 4L60e to begin with, just what I've read online and the basics.

...oh, they also used them on the F-bodies and Corvettes, duh.

Yep, the 4L60E landscape can be a minefield to navigate when it comes to interchangeability, both in part and as an assembled unit.

The Gen3 sbc 4L60Es in the full size trucks/suvs are all largely the same other than the TSS through 2008. In 2009, all 4L60Es underwent significant C3 and component changes, the most prominent being the introduction of the internal mode switch which replaced the mlps/trans fluid pressure switch manifold. They also eliminated the 3-2 control solenoid and valve train so the case, valve body as well as the command/control logic also changed. As is, those units wont retro to 2008 and earlier vehicles and vise versa.

The 4L60Es that went into the in-line engines had a diff bell housing, input shaft, pan, filter and 1-2 acc housing/base plate than the V8 versions of that transmission. And it would take a lot more adaptation then simply swapping bell housings from one unit to another to mate to a Gen3 small block. In fact, once you do all the adaptation required, it's just a little bit more work to simply overhaul the existing unit, defeating the purpose of the swap (unless the existing unit is grenaded and you're using two transmissions to make one good one (I've had to do that numerous times over the years).

This 4L60E from a 2010 Colorado with a 3.7L engine...Note the differences: input shaft, converter and bell.
View attachment 433534

Gen3 SBC (4.3-6.0) 4L60E

 

[NickTransmissions]

@stevesbermudablue or anyone else reading...

While I didn't mention it initially (skipped my mind when arguing with that other poster), you can also tell whether or not a given 4L60E has a turbine speed sensor by looking at the color of the transmission's wiring harness case connector.

- The green/gray connectors are attached to wiring harnesses that DO NOT have a TSS Connector

- The dark gray/brown connectors are attached to wiring harnesses that DO have a TSS Connector

- The blue harnesses are attached to wiring harnesses that have a TSS connector as well as an IMS connector (2009+) - These units ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE with 2008 and earlier vehicles!

Harness with gray/green connector (2003-2005 - no input speed sensor)


Harness with Black/brown connector (L2005-2008 - input speed sensor)


Harness with Blue/Brown connector (2009+ - input speed sensor, internal mode switch and integral trans temp sensor)