08 Denali lowering questions...

[B-train]

Concur sir

 

[livingez_123]

Do you like the way it rides, etc. as it is now?

Are you willing and able to cut on it?

Considering the shocks are shot, I rides great.
Not afraid to cut and grind on it, free travel mod will be done at the same time.

 

[iamdub]

Considering the shocks are shot, I rides great.
Not afraid to cut and grind on it, free travel mod will be done at the same time.

I had to ask cuz the variable damping shocks ride rougher with age. At least, the bi-state ones do. The suspension controller is a part of, if not the reason for this. My point is that, in my experience, the Belltech struts and shocks ride about the same as the "worn/firmer" OEM struts and shocks. Maybe a little more compliant, but definitely not Cadillac quality. They're a decent compromise between sporty handling and highway cushiness, IMO. Supposedly, Bilstein 4600 series are the bee's nuts in satisfying most driving conditions. But, they're pricey and not "lowering" struts, requiring other measures for lowering.

For the front, definitely start with spindles. AFAIK, they all yield a solid 2" drop except for McGaughy's, they yield 1.75". I have the McG's and, after being surprised and aggravated about the lesser drop, I'm now at peace with and appreciative of it since learning why. They have some particulars about their installation, though. For the hassle and lesser drop, and since BT now has a second design spindle to address ball joint angles for +2" drops, I'd probably go with BT if I were to do it again. For the rest of the drop, you can get adjustable struts. Or, if you wanna use good struts, such as the Bilsteins, that are not drop struts, you can mount them under the control arms with special grade hardware (Grade 9). This way would give you an adjustable drop that won't require you to disassemble the strut to add or remove spacer rings. While you have it all apart, I'd suggest installing the BT alignment cams just to ensure you have enough adjustment for the 4" front drop. This requires elongating the slots in the upper control arm mounts. A die grinder with a rotary hasp will work fine.

For the rear, do your research on coils as there are plenty of viable options ranging from those from BT specifically for this platform to drop coils for a Trailblazer to using "whatever fits". I have Jeep TJ coils for my 4.5" rear drop. You'll need ~2-3" shorter shocks and extenders. The go-to are the BT SP (Street Performance), which complements the SP shock used in their strut. I'm running Bilstein 4600s from a Jeep XJ. They have the exact same dimensions as the BT drop shocks, but required modification to mount.

What you need to determine is the type of ride quality you're wanting and/or willing to accept and how much you wanna spend to make it a "one-and-done" and/or a "buy once, cry once" ordeal.

My drop stuff starts here if you want details and pics: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/growing-up-doesnt-have-to-suck.93510/post-1394964

 

[livingez_123]

I had to ask cuz the variable damping shocks ride rougher with age. At least, the bi-state ones do. The suspension controller is a part of, if not the reason for this. My point is that, in my experience, the Belltech struts and shocks ride about the same as the "worn/firmer" OEM struts and shocks. Maybe a little more compliant, but definitely not Cadillac quality. They're a decent compromise between sporty handling and highway cushiness, IMO. Supposedly, Bilstein 4600 series are the bee's nuts in satisfying most driving conditions. But, they're pricey and not "lowering" struts, requiring other measures for lowering.

For the front, definitely start with spindles. AFAIK, they all yield a solid 2" drop except for McGaughy's, they yield 1.75". I have the McG's and, after being surprised and aggravated about the lesser drop, I'm now at peace with and appreciative of it since learning why. They have some particulars about their installation, though. For the hassle and lesser drop, and since BT now has a second design spindle to address ball joint angles for +2" drops, I'd probably go with BT if I were to do it again. For the rest of the drop, you can get adjustable struts. Or, if you wanna use good struts, such as the Bilsteins, that are not drop struts, you can mount them under the control arms with special grade hardware (Grade 9). This way would give you an adjustable drop that won't require you to disassemble the strut to add or remove spacer rings. While you have it all apart, I'd suggest installing the BT alignment cams just to ensure you have enough adjustment for the 4" front drop. This requires elongating the slots in the upper control arm mounts. A die grinder with a rotary hasp will work fine.

For the rear, do your research on coils as there are plenty of viable options ranging from those from BT specifically for this platform to drop coils for a Trailblazer to using "whatever fits". I have Jeep TJ coils for my 4.5" rear drop. You'll need ~2-3" shorter shocks and extenders. The go-to are the BT SP (Street Performance), which complements the SP shock used in their strut. I'm running Bilstein 4600s from a Jeep XJ. They have the exact same dimensions as the BT drop shocks, but required modification to mount.

What you need to determine is the type of ride quality you're wanting and/or willing to accept and how much you wanna spend to make it a "one-and-done" and/or a "buy once, cry once" ordeal.

My drop stuff starts here if you want details and pics: https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/growing-up-doesnt-have-to-suck.93510/post-1394964

Your a mind reader, if the ride is a little firmer with the Bell Tech stuff that is fine with me, I like to toss it around the corners when I can. Bilstein are usually my go to shock but since I will end up between 2-3in in the front I will give the Bell tech struts a try. What are your thoughts on the DJM LCA relocation setup? I was thinking adjustable control arms just to keep the wheel centered in the wheel well and adjustable panhard bar to keep the rear end centered left to right. I have seen where people like the TBSS rear springs because they ride better, again it's a matter of perspective. I will be running the air lift bags with a on-board compressor and in cab controller since I have one sitting on the shelf. Anything else I might be forgetting? I turn 62 this year and I'm not done playing yet. I've also had 8 back surgeries and 2 of them were fusions so I can sympathize with your back pain.
What catch can are you running?
I just looked through your thread and the 3.25/4 looks perfect.

 

[iamdub]

Your a mind reader, if the ride is a little firmer with the Bell Tech stuff that is fine with me, I like to toss it around the corners when I can. Bilstein are usually my go to shock but since I will end up between 2-3in in the front I will give the Bell tech struts a try.

You'll likely be happy with the BT struts, then. Sporty control in the corners and plenty compliant on the highway. Also relatively cheap for what you get, IMO. If our timing aligns, I'll have a like-new set of 25004s for sale, if you're interested. Get the spindles for the 2" then drop it up to 2" more with struts. If you really want it to feel less heavy and inspire confidence in the turns, upgrade them sway bars.

What are your thoughts on the DJM LCA relocation setup? I was thinking adjustable control arms just to keep the wheel centered in the wheel well and adjustable panhard bar to keep the rear end centered left to right.

I like the idea of it. Instead of having the arm way up in the cycle so that the rear is trying to move forward when the suspension is in "bump" (compression), it's back at a flat or stock-like downward slope, depending on ride height (from the drop). It reduces the amount the axle is off center, forward and aft in the fender opening. I'm not such a fan of the adjustable lower arms. Due to the bushings, they transmit more feel of road imperfections and can even be a source of noise. My axle isn't far enough off center to bother me. It's barely noticeable after it's brought to anyone's attention. I still want to move it back but want to keep the OE bushing feel, so I'll lengthen a set of new OE lower arms. I'll make some adjustable uppers to coincide with the lengthened lowers and fine-tune the pinion angle. They'll be simple "single adjustable" links with urethane bushings. I'm a fan of the adjustable panhard bar. With a large drop, the tire can contact the inner lip of the fender in hard corners. So, you might need to have it slightly off center, towards the driver side, so that it pulls away from the fender on the driver side as the axle rotates upward. Where you adjust it depends on your drop, how hard you huck it and how much your tire's sidewalls roll. Oh, I also rolled my rear fender lips. IIRC, I gained about 1/2" of clearance. Might not sound like much, but it's a considerable amount in this area with that much drop. The ON:Y thing that contacts in the rear of mine is the top of the panhard mount on the axle bumping the cross member on really hard bumps at speed and/or hard and fast RH turns with bumps. Even then, I don't hear anything and it's not a terribly hard collision. I just see contact marks in the cross member. I might cut and box it for clearance one day if it actually mattered to me at that moment.

I have seen where people like the TBSS rear springs because they ride better, again it's a matter of perspective. I will be running the air lift bags with a on-board compressor and in cab controller since I have one sitting on the shelf.

Just as many that say they ride better are some that say they're too soft. I think this is a benefit if you're gonna use the air lift bags since it gives you more adjustability. It's much easier to firm up the ride than soften it. I really like my Jeep coils. They were free, work great and I've towed plenty with them and not with some obscene amount of air in the bags. I believe 12psi at most when towing a car. I'm looking into a little more drop so I picked up another set of the coils off Marketplace for $20.

Anything else I might be forgetting? I turn 62 this year and I'm not done playing yet. I've also had 8 back surgeries and 2 of them were fusions so I can sympathize with your back pain.

Drop amount, pros and cons of the components, supporting/corrective components... I think we've pretty well covered it.

What catch can are you running?

It's from catchcans.com.

I just looked through your thread and the 3.25/4 looks perfect.

Thank you! Most of the time, I'm plenty satisfied with it and other times I want just a little more. That little more will require a lot of additional work. This is why I haven't jumped on it yet. FWIW, it's more like 3.5/4.25. At this level, that .25" is something to consider. I mean, I got 275/45 tires instead of the stock 285/45 just for that minuscule amount of extra clearance.

 

[livingez_123]

Well I think most of my questions have been answered, I really appreciate the info, but I still have one more...2509 or 2511 bell tech knuckles? Some say the 2511 has better ball joint angles than the 2509. Yes the 2511 are for a 2wd but they fit the 4wd/AWD also.

 

[iamdub]

Well I think most of my questions have been answered, I really appreciate the info, but I still have one more...2509 or 2511 bell tech knuckles? Some say the 2511 has better ball joint angles than the 2509. Yes the 2511 are for a 2wd but they fit the 4wd/AWD also.

If you won't go any lower than the 2" from the spindle drop, the 2509 are fine. If you might or will go lower, get the 2511. I'd probably get the 2511 regardless. Their ball joint angles were revised to accommodate more drop but I don't believe they're enough to be out of line if you never dropped it any further.

 

[livingez_123]

Thanks dub

 

[ethanstarrette]

How much drop can i get with the factory torsion bar keys

 

[livingez_123]

Well I finally have all of parts, most are Belltech. I will be replacing all ball joints, bushings, inner and outer tie rods etc. Now just to finish the last 2 customer cars so I can finally work on my own...unless a last minute boat job comes in. I will get the air lift bags after I get the finished ride high set so I can measure for the correct bags.