2021 PPV Front Brakes on 2013 Escalade ESV, and rear brake overhaul

[petethepug]

.5” wheel spacers & .5” longer wheel studs worked on this 08 EXT Brembo BBK. He was looking for a solution to the thread pitch issue you discovered too.

New 08 EXT owner, about to begin Whipple build, some...

www.cadillacforums.com

 

[skpyle]

That’s what it is looking like.

I just did some more fitment testing. Stack of washers 13mm thick gives approximately 1/16” clearance between the caliper and the rim.

Lug studs are definitely too short for this.

I am now looking into longer lug studs.

Thanks!

 

[petethepug]

Fastgas in the other forum was racking his brain trying to figure out what the thread pitch was on his rear brake lines. I think he ditched running the Vette Brembo at the rear and went with another company.

 

[skpyle]

Fastgas in the other forum was racking his brain trying to figure out what the thread pitch was on his rear brake lines. I think he ditched running the Vette Brembo at the rear and went with another company.

I saw that. The new Powerstop braided brake hoses threaded onto my front hardlines with no problem. I am expecting/hoping for the same for the four rear hoses as well.

 

[MWD_CTSV]

It is great to see that the Powerstop 2021-2023 PPV rotors are available!

I had the same problem with wheel clearance for my 2011 Yukon Denali wheels, so I ended up using .250 hub centric spacers from Baer. I don't like having the wheel non-hub centric, but the braking is awesome.

 

[skpyle]

OK, I am back, and have good updates.

I finally completed the replacement of the front lug studs and installation of spacers back on the 24th and have been driving my Escalade daily since.

My report on adding 2021 PPV front brakes to a GMT900: not for the faint of heart, and NOT a straight bolt on. But, totally worth it.

The brakes feel very solid. Almost as if nothing has changed. Granted, my Escalade braked just fine on good condition stock components. Now, initial bite is a tad more, but braking feels smooth. It is just a whole lot more. When I apply the brakes, the vehicle just smoothly sheds speed, quickly.
The brakes are not grabby or touchy, the pedal isn't soft or rock hard. Honestly, if I didn't know any better, I wouldn't know my Escalade has better brakes. Until I have to really step on the brake pedal.

I have not done a full panic stop, as I am afraid to. My previous SUV, 1999 Ford Explorer Limited 5.0L AWD (God rest her soul, taken out by an inattentive driver), had excellent brakes. Me being a dumba$$, wanted to test the ABS before a long road trip. I panic stopped coming down a hill at considerable speed. And glazed all 4 rotors and sets of pads. Way bad juju...
Since then, I have been hesitant to perform a full panic stop needlessly.
Having said that, I have tried agressive braking on the highway coming down from 100mph. The brakes just bite in smoothly and pull the vehicle down. No fuss, just solid feeling of YOU ARE STOPPING!!!
I don't know if this makes any sense, but there is no drama. Its not like the front end dips and you hit the steering wheel, you just feel the vehicle STOPPING. It always feels under control.

 

[skpyle]

Back on track for documenting the install:

With the new carbide burrs, I hand 'machined' clearance at the caliper mounting points on both spindles. Much better. Still ugly, but better. I removed enough cast iron so that I did not have to trim the stainless steel spacer washers. Having installed both calipers multiple times now, there was NO WAY I would have been able to keep a trimmed spacer correctly oriented.
Once I was happy with the 'machining', I cleaned the area with brake cleaner, then shot a coat of black spray paint on. Mainly to keep rust from forming as fast.




Driver's side spindle upper caliper mount, as it is machined from the factory. This shows what I was starting with.





Driver's side spindle upper caliper mount with spacer washer on through bolt. This shows how much interference there was for the washer to sit flat.





Driver's side spindle lower caliper mount, as it is machined from the factory. This shows what I was starting with.





Driver's side spindle lower caliper mount with spacer washer on through bolt. The spacer washer just about sat flat. However, I still ground some clearance.

 

[skpyle]

Driver's side spindle upper caliper mount after my 'expert' hand machining for spacer washer clearance. Ugly, but it works.




Quick shot of flat black Rustoleum on the driver's side upper caliper mount to keep the rust from forming as fast.





Driver's side spindle lower caliper mount after my 'expert' hand machining for spacer washer clearance. Ugly, but it works.





Quick shot of flat black Rustoleum on the driver's side upper caliper mount to keep the rust from forming as fast.



NOTE: I went back and cleaned up my 'machining' on the passenger's side spindle so it matched the driver's side.

 

[skpyle]

Now that I had clearance for the spacer washers to sit, I had to figure out which thickness of spacers I needed to center the calipers. Others had posted using a fender washer on each bolt.
Yeah. That didn't work for me.

From Amazon, I purchased 3/8" ID x 1 1/2" OD stainless steel fender washers, that were listed as being 0.040" thick, as well as same size but 0.060" thick. This way I had some leeway for spacing. I was still under the impression I would only need one spacer per bolt. I drilled out a group of both thickness washers to 9/16" ID so the M14 caliper bolts would pass through.

Got a caliper mounted with a 0.060" spacer between the caliper and the spindle. Lightly torqued the bolts. And noticed immediately that the rotor was NOT centered in the caliper.

OK, take it back a part and rethink.
I measured each spacer washer with my calipers, and marked its size in Sharpie. So I knew what selection I had to work with.

I quickly realized I could not use my calipers to measure the gap between the rotor surfaces and the caliper pistons. Measuring point was too deep. Scratched my head for a bit. Until I remembered a little set of tools I bought years ago on a whim, and had never used. Snap gauges! Though finicky to use, they were perfect for measuring this gap.

Through several cycles of mounting, measuring gaps, demounting, repeating for each caliper, I ended up walking gaps into this:

Driver's upper outboard: 0.79"
Driver's upper inboard: 0.81"
This was using 0.063" and 0.061" thick spacers between the caliper and spindle.

Driver's lower outboard: 0.80"
Driver's lower inboard: 0.82"
This was using 0.065" and 0.061" thick spacers between the caliper and spindle.

Passenger's upper outboard: 0.80"
Passenger's upper inboard: 0.82"
This was using 0.063" and 0.055" thick spacers between the caliper and spindle.

Passenger's lower outboard: 0.80"
Passenger's lower inboard: 0.82"
This was using 0.063" and 0.055" thick spacers between the caliper and spindle.

I called 0.002" difference between outboard and inboard good and the rotor centered in the caliper.

Honestly, this is academic. I am using digital micrometers and snap gauges, and I don't do this for a living. There is most definitely some tolerance/error in my measurements. I was trying to get it as close as I could with what I had.
However...two things:
1) the brake pistons will 'self center' the pads on the rotor. A little misalignment will be OK
2) the numbers look good




Stainless steel fender washers used as spacers, shorthand marked with measured thickness. 58 = 0.058"
My digital micrometers are decent quality, and I am not a complete hamfist using them, but they are not lab grade. Good enough for what I am trying to do.





The cutest little set of snap gauges. They were definitely the right tool for measuring the gap between the brake rotor surface and the caliper pistons.





Top of driver's side caliper. Photo doesn't really show it, but the rotor looks centered in the caliper.





Bottom of driver's side caliper. Photo doesn't really show it, but the rotor looks centered in the caliper.

 

[skpyle]

Now that the calipers were centered over the rotors, I could move onto the next issue: mounting bolts.

I had originally purchased 4 of the recommended GM Genuine 11612265 caliper bracket mounting bolts. These are stock for 2013 Escalade to mount the caliper brackets to the spindles. These bolts are M14x2.0 - 45mm long under the head, are matte black colored and coated with threadlocker.

Thinking about it, I looked up the stock caliper mounting bolts for 2021 PPV 6-piston calipers. I ordered 4 of these GM Genuine 11546469 caliper mounting bolts. These bolts are M14x2.0 - 40mm long under the head, are matte silver colored and coated with threadlocker.

When I was mocking up the calipers, I used the original caliper bracket mounting bolts that I had cleaned. They were the equivalent of the 11612265 bolts, M14x2.0 - 45mm long.

Wasn't sure which new mounting bolts to use. The 45mm long bolts were to be torqued to 148 lbs/ft. The 40mm long bolts (I think, see earlier post in this thread) were Torque To Yield bolts and had an angle torque procedure. Which really doesn't faze me. Once I put the bolts on, they wouldn't be coming back off until next pad change. (Ominous thunder cracking in the distance...)

However...with the calipers mounted with the spacer washers, I noticed the original mounting bolts had approximately 3.9mm thread protrusion past the end of the threaded insert on the caliper mounting ear. Meaning the 40mm bolts would have -1.1mm thread protrusion. This bothered me.

I wasted a considerable amount of time on mental arithmetic gymnastics trying to determine if the 40mm bolts would work. And decided, NO.

I used the new 45mm long bolts for caliper mounting.



New 11612265 bolt at left, original mounting bolt in middle, new 11546569 bolt at right.





Passenger's side lower caliper mounting ear, showing 3.9mm mounting bolt protrusion.





What -1.1mm bolt protrusion looked like on the caliper mounting ear threaded insert. It may well have been fine to use the 40mm long bolts, but my OCD said to use the 45mm long bolts.





Money shot on the new GM calipers. Just because.