Lifter Failure Root Cause Same as HEMI?

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15burban

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Its a little expensive but hemi's love redline 5w30. I run it in my 6.4 that calls for 0w40 pennzoil ultra platinum and I couldn't believe how much quieter the motor was after putting in the redline oil. My truck truck has never had the "hemi tick". It's a thicker 30 weight and has a lot of moly in it. Otherwise rather then adding lucas to the oil add 15 ounces of lubegard biotech. That also has a lot of moly and helps quite down the hemi tick.
 

Redracechris36

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There is an article out there that says a lot of lifter failure is due to oiling, or lack thereof. I will see if i can find it.
 

aJohnM1948

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There is an article out there that says a lot of lifter failure is due to oiling, or lack thereof. I will see if i can find it.
My 2018 Tahoe LS had a V8/V4 indicator on certain pages of the DIC. I can’t find an indicator like this on my 2025. Is Chevy trying to pretend cylinder deactivation doesn’t exist because of the problems it can cause? I read previously it caused problems in 2% of prior generation vehicles and never read a root cause. Was it variation in machining tolerances (my bet), dirty oil, driving habits, something other? I could always connect my Autel OBD2 meter on to monitor cylinder deactivation if I wanted to ensure an after market product like a Range DOD/DFM device is doing it’s job of keeping the car in V8 mode, but that’s a PIA if one would have to do that periodically to insure such devices were (still) doing their job.
 

Marky Dissod

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Disable cylinder deactivation, by any means available.
If you can afford the sacrifices of money and downtime, delete the feature completely at your convenience.
The investment will pay off when your engine lasts far longer with less oil consumption.

Til then, change the motor oil and ATF more often than GM says.
 

GMCChevy

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I know there are a lot of posts published online about this, but I can’t find an answer to my specific question.



Yes, I am trying to learn what causes the lifter failure in the 5.3L and 6.2L V8 engines. I found something interesting about lifter failure in HEMI engines, and I wonder if the GM V8 engines experience the same type of failure.



The 5.7L and 6.4L HEMI V8 engines have an affinity for lifter failure like the GM engines do. No, I am not entirely sure it’s the same type of failure, but if it is, then I’m wanting to learn if there is a similar solution. Let me elaborate a bit more.



A master FCA technician spent years collaborating with an engineer to determine and find a solution for HEMI lifter failure. Hd referenced FCA’s lifter failure statistics, which found that most lifter failure events occurred in vehicles with high idle times and/or poor oil change maintenance. That led them into investigating oil lubrication quality at varying levels, such as at idle and throughout a range of throttle input.



Online, it seems the oldest and most popular theory among HEMI owners (and GM V8 owners) is that the cylinder deactivation technology (AFM, DFM, MDS) causes the problem. In the case of the HEMI engines, the technician emphasized that the same type of lifter failure occurred on both MDS and non-MDS V8 models, so he wasn’t convinced the cylinder deactivation is the root cause. It is still possible that MDS might have an effect in correlation with inadequate lubrication, but not the root cause, which is again according to the technician.



The technician and his engineer co-researcher concluded that inadequate oil lubrication at idle is the root cause of excessive lifter and camshaft wear, leading to premature failure. A ticking noise is a tale-tale sign of excessive lifter wear. His solution is to replace the stock oil pump with a higher volume oil pump, such as the Melling 10452HV oil pump. It increases the oil volume by 20%. According to the tech, it allows the oil to lubricate key areas that do not get properly oiled otherwise, thus preventing the excessive wear and tear.



Thoughts? Has anyone found information suggesting that inadequate lubrication is the root cause of lifter failure in the 5.3L and 6.2L V8 engines?
The hemi lifter failure is due to bad needle bearings in the lifter. It has nothing to do with MDS as even the cylinders and engines without it can have had the problem. They came out with the ones with bigger bearings to correct it.
It does seem odd that roller lifters have been around for decades and multiple manufacturers have issues now. They do seem pickler with maintenance and oil type then older vehicles.
 

blanchard7684

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Typical failure modes are a collapsed lifter (the switching mechanism won't deactivate) or the roller failure (needle bearing failure). Either one can damage the camshaft lobe, but the roller failure will damage it to a greater extent.

There are other failures such as the locking pins not fully engaging causing the inner lifter to get stuck or lodged into the outer lifter body. This is a miss timed switching event. Technically this is also a collapsed lifter.

This video (1:00) talk about what happens. It is a good video in general on the lifter activation/deactivation cycle.


There could be a number of other failure modes but they are extremely rare.

Of course manufacturing defects can be a source of lifter failures. There was a bad batch in 2020 and 2021. These years seem to have a large representation in the failed lifter statistics.

There is another issue though...the engines that are higher in miles that fail with collapsed lifter or failed roller in the 60K-150K range. These failures also have a high occurrence of camshaft lobe damage.

This is where a defect may be unlikely as a cause for the typical failure modes.

Tolerance stacking may be afoot: a few pieces of the system may be at the extremes of their spec limit making it more sensitive to and prone to failure.

And it is also possible there are end-user issues.

When both are combined it can lead to a lifter failure earlier than expected.

Example.

Miles above 60K. Oil changes every 7000-7500 miles. lots of idle time in hot ambient conditions. 0w20. Oil temps at or above 220F for appreciable time.

The lube quality (viscosity, additive package degradation, acid number) is simply not adequate for keeping needle bearings from being at a point of incipient spalling.
Lube quality could be too poor for preventing spalling between cam lobe and roller.
Varnish can be causing lifter DFM cycle to be slow due to being gummed up. This can cause the miss timed switch event.

If a lifter had a tolerance stack issue on one or more component, the above operation would easily lead to early lifter failure.

I think these engines with DFM (in particular) are more sensitive to oil quality. Even without a tolerance stack issue, oil maintenance will put the lifter and cam at risk of early failure.

Example

Oil change interval 7500 miles on average. Sometimes 10K, 8K because life gets in the way and you can't get to a shop for an oil change. Most of the time it is changed at 7-7.5K. Always on 0W20. oil level not monitored. likely low on oil most of the time. Engine has 100K-150K miles. Lots of idle time waiting for kids at the game or school or in traffic jam.

Without the tolerance stack issue it will go further in miles before seeing same failure.

Throw in people who use the wrong oil (conventional mineral or even group III mineral, instead of group IV synthetic); or people who are absurdly intent on getting all they can out of their oil changes and go 10,000-12,000 miles (or 12 months)...and with the large customer base GM has with these engines, you are going to get a huge number of these types of errors...and associated early failures.

Putting the "Venn diagrams" together I have yet to see a significant number of these failure modes on engines managed by enthusiasts: people who will be changing oil at or before 5K miles, don't idle their vehicle excessively, use 5W30, do their own maintenance...any one of these categories seems to put their associated engines outside of the 60K-150K failure range. Combining any two of these seems to create a good safety factor against failure and shows up as a likely candidate for 200K+ miles before seeing these failures.

Specifically with Ram engines...I have experience with a 2017 Ram that just ate a lifter at 228,000 miles. Truck was used like a rented mule. Towed at max capacity 40% of the time. But the owner changed his own oil at 5000 miles, always used a good filter and full synthetic oil. But he used 0W20. He also complained all the time about getting oil temp warning lights and found that the truck usually had an oil temp of 230F. So with exceptional maintenance the system went 228,000 miles even on 0W20 at 230F.
 

Marky Dissod

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It does seem odd that roller lifters have been around for decades and multiple manufacturers have issues now.
They cannot resist pinching pennies harder & more often, as in, picture several people at several different levels all whinging,
'How hard can we push down on the price of a roller rocker?"

ChrysCo & GM fyouseekay'd around and found out.
 

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