Blumax, I've consolidated all of your post in to this thread so you and BlackBear can have a discussion on this rather than just spamming the forum in other post without two sides of the story.
Missing feed back
- Thread starter Blumax
- Start date
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How about explaining to all of us how someone can pay a $400 deposit and you give them a $540 refund? Now if I have too I will post email you sent that details how I will receive a $540 refund after only paying $400 deposit. I was asked for an additional $400 deposit after I had paid the original $400 deposit. This additional $400 was never mentioned until logs had been built and sent to you. I'm sure that many people on this board have had great experiences with BB and I don't doubt that BB is an outstanding company but....you are not perfect as much as you want to portray yourself. After several attempts to get you to provide me with an explanation you still have not provided an explanation of the $540 refund from a $400 deposit. Your position has been that you didn't ask for an additional $400 deposit but you will not explain how in your email you told me that I "would receive a $540 refuned after all is said and done". I have asked you this question at least five times in emails yet you have completely avoided providing an explanation. You see my fellow board members I have posestion of a scan tool that belongs to Mr Justin. Mr Justin has $400 of my money. I have asked for a refund but he wants me to send his tool back to him first. In lieu of his refusal to provide any explanation for the additional $400 deposit I have zero trust that he will refund my money if I send the tool back. Mr Justin if you want to continue this silliness on this board I welcome the challenge and I will post all pertinent emails from you that clearly states that I would receive a refund of $540 even after a deposit of $400.
---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------
Your only adding to the problem. Now I guess I'm going to have to dispute YOUR claims also.. YOU made the mistake of decoding the vin on my Tahoe which was responsible for the incorrect order in the first place. No problem...I did as instructed and resubmitted another order using the link I was sent. I sent the deposit ($400) and all was well. I made the logs and emailed them. I received a reply that the log was "perfect". I then received an email informing me that you now realize that my Tahoe is a 6 speed and it would require a trans tune to realize the full benefit of the tune. Before I could respond I received an email informing me of the additional deposit. I ask for an explanation and also questioned why after all this time I was just now informed of this additional deposit. I never received an explanation for this deposit. I stopped at step 4 for reasons I've explained and if the reasons for stopping escapes you I can't help you. I will say that you have provided the closest thing to an explanation that I have seen. Could it be that the additional deposit was due to you realizing my Tahoe is a 6 speed and would require an additional deposit to tune the trans? If this is accurate then tell me again what and who started this silliness? Was mistakes made by you by not decoding my vin correctly or was it the fact that the first order form I completed did not include any additional pages that included the instructions? Also...the first time I attempted to download v7.5 the only option on the page was to download v8 which I thought might be an update to v7.5. After using another browser I was able to see the button to download v7.5. I could not see this option using my laptop. I revisited order form page after inquiring about support on this board and was informed not by BB but by another member of this board that those instructions were in fact part of the order form. I revisited the page using another browser and yes, this time I could scroll down to the instructions. Keep trying to spin this though...I'm rather enjoying the exchanges at this point.
---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------
Your only adding to the problem. Now I guess I'm going to have to dispute YOUR claims also.. YOU made the mistake of decoding the vin on my Tahoe which was responsible for the incorrect order in the first place. No problem...I did as instructed and resubmitted another order using the link I was sent. I sent the deposit ($400) and all was well. I made the logs and emailed them. I received a reply that the log was "perfect". I then received an email informing me that you now realize that my Tahoe is a 6 speed and it would require a trans tune to realize the full benefit of the tune. Before I could respond I received an email informing me of the additional deposit. I ask for an explanation and also questioned why after all this time I was just now informed of this additional deposit. I never received an explanation for this deposit. I stopped at step 4 for reasons I've explained and if the reasons for stopping escapes you I can't help you. I will say that you have provided the closest thing to an explanation that I have seen. Could it be that the additional deposit was due to you realizing my Tahoe is a 6 speed and would require an additional deposit to tune the trans? If this is accurate then tell me again what and who started this silliness? Was mistakes made by you by not decoding my vin correctly or was it the fact that the first order form I completed did not include any additional pages that included the instructions? Also...the first time I attempted to download v7.5 the only option on the page was to download v8 which I thought might be an update to v7.5. After using another browser I was able to see the button to download v7.5. I could not see this option using my laptop. I revisited order form page after inquiring about support on this board and was informed not by BB but by another member of this board that those instructions were in fact part of the order form. I revisited the page using another browser and yes, this time I could scroll down to the instructions. Keep trying to spin this though...I'm rather enjoying the exchanges at this point.
After reading through the emails back and forth, and seeing some of your posts on here (with many false accusations on your end), I am surprised that the math is still not making sense, as it has been explained ad nauseam.
You had only paid the $400 scan cable deposit, at which point is currently in a charge back situation. So in essence, you have a piece of BBP equipment (the scan cable), and BBP has no money. You have openly stated that you have the equipment, all the while, telling the credit card company that you have not receive anything from BBP for your $400.
Here is an effort to lay the process out to you in a different manner.
You purchased an ECM only scan cable tune, which in total (after all deposits are returned) is $275.
SCAN CABLE ECM ONLY PROCESS:
STEP 1:
$400 deposit for the scan cable (refunded when you return the cable at the end of the process)
-you pay deposit on scan cable and scan cable is shipped to you
STEP 2:
-you use the scan cable to collect datalog
STEP 3:
-you email BBP the datalog for review to make sure that all looks good for the tune to be built
STEP 4:
$275 for the tune (ECM only tune)
$140 for the ECM core (refunded when you send your OEM ECM back in, avoided if you send your OEM to be tuned)
TOTAL $415 (or $275 if you send your own ECM in to be tuned) to be paid for STEP 4
-you pay BBP for the tune (and ECM core if applicable)
-BBP builds the tune and loads it to the ECM
-BBP ships ECM to you
STEP 5:
-you install computer
-you perform security relearn
-you use the scan cable to perform crank relearn
-you collect another datalog with scan cable
-you email datalog to BBP
-once all looks good, you ship scan cable (and stock ECM) back to BBP for deposit refund
If you return both the cable and the ECM, TOTAL refund is $540 total ($400 for the cable and $140 for the ECM).
You were not told you were being refunded more than you paid (reminder: you only paid the $400 deposit for the scan cable). You were told that you would receive a total of $540 back, once the entire process (all 5 steps) were complete, and you sent the cable and the OEM ECM back in.
You have not paid for a tune, you currently have only paid the deposit on the cable, finishing through STEP 3.
B.L.U.F: you have only paid a $400 deposit on the cable, until you initiated the credit card dispute, the guys were willing to refund your $400 once the cable was returned.
---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
First Email Thread, December 29 - January 5th -- BEFORE any money was exchanged, it was re-iterated that the ECM could only be tuned, that the AutoCal was needed for transmission. Instructions were detailed out to him on two occasions, January 5th and January 2nd.
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Not a problem. Please see the link below to access the instructions:
>
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/scancable.asp
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> So I can avoid burning brain cells would you please reply with a link to the page that contains the instructions for the Scan Cable?
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:50 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Don,
>>
>> Thank you for the deposit. The instructions are found on the same page where you submitted a deposit. These will tell you how to do each step of doing a data log. If you get stuck, we are here to help trouble shoot.
>>
>> The cable will be dropped off at the post office today.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jarrad
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Jarrad, I just completed the purchase. Will phone support be available to assist in the process? I feel like I might be getting a little over my head but with a little help I'm sure I can do this.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 1, 2015 4:49 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Don,
>>
>> I apologize, I gave you the wrong price for the Scan Cable. Since we are only able to tune the ECM and not the TCM with that option, the price is $275, not $330. If you would like to proceed, please use the following link to submit a deposit for the cable:
>>
>> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/scancable.asp?id=v2
>>
>> After you perform the data logging and email us the files, we will send out a link to the tune order form. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jarrad
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jarrad
>>
>> I want to order the Scan Cable Tune.....where do I start? The brand of CAI is a K&N Blackhawk which includes a dry filter instead of the usual oiled filter.
>>
>> Please reply with ordering instructions.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:58 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Don,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting us about a tune. A cold air intake will be beneficial and will add additional horsepower on top of the gains seen from the tune. Which brand are you considering? I would not recommend getting an aftermarket MAF. The stock one is more beneficial. Also, I would not recommend a throttle body spacer. They do not add any benefit and are basically a waste money.
>>
>> With the addition of a cold air intake, I would highly recommend our Scan Cable tune or AutoCal option. That allows us to ensure it is properly dialed in within the tune. Also, with our AutoCal option, we are able to tune both the engine and the transmission. Here are the details of both options:
>>
>> Scan Cable Tune - With the security deposit, we send out a data logger, to be used with a Windows based Laptop to collect data. Then, using that data and an order form that you complete, we complete and ship the set of computers out to you to be installed.
>> Tune service: $330
>> Scan cable security deposit: $400
>>
>> AutoCal - All tuning is completed by email with this option. The AutoCal is used to collect data from the truck, much like the scan cable tune, without needing a laptop, and all tuning is completed based on that data. The end result is emailed to you to be installed using the OBD2 port under the dash. Details and ordering can be found at http://www.blackbearperformance.com/autocal.asp
>> Hardware and Tune: $599
>>
>> I'll be glad to answer any other questions that you may have.
>>
>> Jarrad
>> BlackBearPerformance.com
>> Like us on Facebook!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Black Bear Performance Contact Form Submission
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> SUBMITTED: 12/29/2014 4:21:03 PM
>> FROM: Don Miller
>> EMAIL:
>> LOCATION:
>> PHONE:
>> PREFERRED CONTACT: email
>>
>> VEHICLE: 2012 Chevy Tahoe
>> MODIFICATIONS:
>>
>> QUESTION/COMMENT:
>> It's always nice to locate a business with such a good reputation for customer service as you. I posted a question on a Chevy performance message board but the answers were inconclusive. I'm sold on a Blackbear tune and will be sending my ecm this week. My question is regarding additional mods such as a Cold air intake, an aftermarket MAF, and a TB spacer. Would these mods be effective with your tuning service? Would an increase in either HP or gas mileage be realized by including these mods along with your tune? As soon as I get a reply I will start the process of sending my ECM. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> SUBMISSION DETAILS: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/33.0
>> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/contact.asp
>>
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------
Second Email Thread, January 5th - January 7th -- Difficulty installing software, we suggested that he use a different browser. Don claims in this thread that he was responsible for that, no thanks to BBP.
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Don,
>
> Okay that sounds good. Please let us know if you continue to have issues.
>
> Thanks,
> Jarrad
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> I use Firefox but I've not tried a different browser. I'll fire up the
>> laptop tonight and try to access v7 using different browsers. If that
>> works then I;ll uninstall v8 and download v7. Sorry to be such a pain in
>> the arse but I'm just a little afraid that I'm getting over my head.
>>
>> I installed the CAI today and am looking forward to seeing what a
>> Blackbear tune will do.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 5:39 PM, Black Bear Performance
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear you are still having issues. That is very odd that you
>> are able to see it on your desktop but not your laptop. Windows 7 should not
>> make a difference. The software is compatible Windows 95 all the way up to
>> Windows 8. We have Windows 7 and Windows 8 on our various work laptops and
>> are able to download the v7.5 software. Which browser are you using? Have
>> you tried using Google Chrome? If you are using Google Chrome, have you
>> tried Internet Explorer?
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> The location included with the printed instructions direct you to download
>> v7 software at www.efilive.com. This does not match the location included
>> in this email from you. I don't know if this has something to do with me
>> not being able to see v7 when I use my laptop or not. Using my desktop the
>> gray button and v7 download is visible but for some mysterious reason there
>> is no gray button when using my laptop. Now I have v8 loaded and a
>> nightmare.
>>
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Tue, 1/6/15, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: General & Tune Sales Questions - Don Miller -
>>
>> To: "Don Miller" <>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 5:23 PM
>>
>> Hello Don,
>> You will need to download V7.5. Please use the
>> link below to download the software:
>> www.efilive.com/latest/cat/download-efilive
>>
>> The 7.5 software is downloaded using the gray
>> button.
>> Thanks,Jarrad
>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at
>> 11:25 AM, Don Miller <>
>> wrote:
>> Black
>> Bear Performance Contact Form Submission
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>
>> SUBMITTED: 1/5/2015 2:25:21 PM
>>
>> FROM: Don Miller
>>
>> EMAIL:
>>
>> LOCATION:
>>
>> PHONE: ***-***-xxxx
>>
>> PREFERRED CONTACT: email
>>
>>
>>
>> VEHICLE:
>>
>> MODIFICATIONS:
>>
>>
>>
>> QUESTION/COMMENT:
>>
>> I ordered a Cable Scan Tune. The instructions I received
>> was to download v7.5 from efilive. I don't see a v7.5
>> but i do see a v 8. I feel sure that this is the correct
>> software updated since the instructions were sent. I just
>> want to make sure I'm downloading the correct softwear.
>>
>>
>> SUBMISSION DETAILS: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0;
>> Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; GTB7.5; SLCC2; .NET CLR
>> 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media
>> Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; AskTbGLSV5/5.8.0.12304)
>>
>> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/contact.asp
>>
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------
Third email chain, January 12th - January 15th -- Initial log file was sent, but instructions were not followed properly as too many parameters were selected.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> The E38.pid file is opened using the EFILive V7.5 scan tool's File / Open /
> Open PID selection file menu option. It cannot be opened with any other
> software.
>
> The AutoCal is $599 total which includes both the tune service and the
> hardware. Tuning would be on both the engine and transmission and you would
> be able to receive tune updates (as needed) by email as well as be able to
> return to stock when needed.
>
> Justin
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Justin
>>
>> I've tried everything but I cannot open that attachment. I found a screen
>> shot of the parameters in the instructions so I'll make another log using
>> only the 21 items that have been selected in the shot. I'm interested in
>> the Autocal depending on cost. Please send pricing and details.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 7:07 PM, Black Bear Performance
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> Everything preliminarily looks good, however there are too many parameters
>> selected for me to be certain. Can you collect another log file with only
>> those parameters in the instructions? I have attached a selection file to
>> use to help with that purpose. To use this selection file, connect the
>> software to the truck and then go to the file / open / open PID selection
>> file option.
>>
>> I realize that we have discussed an ECM only tuning option in the previous
>> conversations, but if you are interested in a full tune (engine and
>> transmission), we do have that option available with our AutoCal. All
>> tuning would be completed by email in that situation.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Please let me know if I need to send another log.
>>
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
Fourth Email Chain, Monday January 19th at 7am -- In response to a log file sent in to us in Fifth email chain on Thursday January 15th at 7:15am. Two business days later, not a week.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
> I emailed a log and Justin replied requesting I send another log. I emailed
> the second log a week ago but have not heard anything. Was the second log
> acceptable?
>
> Don Miller
You had only paid the $400 scan cable deposit, at which point is currently in a charge back situation. So in essence, you have a piece of BBP equipment (the scan cable), and BBP has no money. You have openly stated that you have the equipment, all the while, telling the credit card company that you have not receive anything from BBP for your $400.
Here is an effort to lay the process out to you in a different manner.
You purchased an ECM only scan cable tune, which in total (after all deposits are returned) is $275.
SCAN CABLE ECM ONLY PROCESS:
STEP 1:
$400 deposit for the scan cable (refunded when you return the cable at the end of the process)
-you pay deposit on scan cable and scan cable is shipped to you
STEP 2:
-you use the scan cable to collect datalog
STEP 3:
-you email BBP the datalog for review to make sure that all looks good for the tune to be built
STEP 4:
$275 for the tune (ECM only tune)
$140 for the ECM core (refunded when you send your OEM ECM back in, avoided if you send your OEM to be tuned)
TOTAL $415 (or $275 if you send your own ECM in to be tuned) to be paid for STEP 4
-you pay BBP for the tune (and ECM core if applicable)
-BBP builds the tune and loads it to the ECM
-BBP ships ECM to you
STEP 5:
-you install computer
-you perform security relearn
-you use the scan cable to perform crank relearn
-you collect another datalog with scan cable
-you email datalog to BBP
-once all looks good, you ship scan cable (and stock ECM) back to BBP for deposit refund
If you return both the cable and the ECM, TOTAL refund is $540 total ($400 for the cable and $140 for the ECM).
You were not told you were being refunded more than you paid (reminder: you only paid the $400 deposit for the scan cable). You were told that you would receive a total of $540 back, once the entire process (all 5 steps) were complete, and you sent the cable and the OEM ECM back in.
You have not paid for a tune, you currently have only paid the deposit on the cable, finishing through STEP 3.
B.L.U.F: you have only paid a $400 deposit on the cable, until you initiated the credit card dispute, the guys were willing to refund your $400 once the cable was returned.
---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
First Email Thread, December 29 - January 5th -- BEFORE any money was exchanged, it was re-iterated that the ECM could only be tuned, that the AutoCal was needed for transmission. Instructions were detailed out to him on two occasions, January 5th and January 2nd.
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Not a problem. Please see the link below to access the instructions:
>
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/scancable.asp
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> So I can avoid burning brain cells would you please reply with a link to the page that contains the instructions for the Scan Cable?
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:50 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Don,
>>
>> Thank you for the deposit. The instructions are found on the same page where you submitted a deposit. These will tell you how to do each step of doing a data log. If you get stuck, we are here to help trouble shoot.
>>
>> The cable will be dropped off at the post office today.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jarrad
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Jarrad, I just completed the purchase. Will phone support be available to assist in the process? I feel like I might be getting a little over my head but with a little help I'm sure I can do this.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 1, 2015 4:49 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Don,
>>
>> I apologize, I gave you the wrong price for the Scan Cable. Since we are only able to tune the ECM and not the TCM with that option, the price is $275, not $330. If you would like to proceed, please use the following link to submit a deposit for the cable:
>>
>> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/scancable.asp?id=v2
>>
>> After you perform the data logging and email us the files, we will send out a link to the tune order form. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jarrad
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jarrad
>>
>> I want to order the Scan Cable Tune.....where do I start? The brand of CAI is a K&N Blackhawk which includes a dry filter instead of the usual oiled filter.
>>
>> Please reply with ordering instructions.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:58 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Don,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting us about a tune. A cold air intake will be beneficial and will add additional horsepower on top of the gains seen from the tune. Which brand are you considering? I would not recommend getting an aftermarket MAF. The stock one is more beneficial. Also, I would not recommend a throttle body spacer. They do not add any benefit and are basically a waste money.
>>
>> With the addition of a cold air intake, I would highly recommend our Scan Cable tune or AutoCal option. That allows us to ensure it is properly dialed in within the tune. Also, with our AutoCal option, we are able to tune both the engine and the transmission. Here are the details of both options:
>>
>> Scan Cable Tune - With the security deposit, we send out a data logger, to be used with a Windows based Laptop to collect data. Then, using that data and an order form that you complete, we complete and ship the set of computers out to you to be installed.
>> Tune service: $330
>> Scan cable security deposit: $400
>>
>> AutoCal - All tuning is completed by email with this option. The AutoCal is used to collect data from the truck, much like the scan cable tune, without needing a laptop, and all tuning is completed based on that data. The end result is emailed to you to be installed using the OBD2 port under the dash. Details and ordering can be found at http://www.blackbearperformance.com/autocal.asp
>> Hardware and Tune: $599
>>
>> I'll be glad to answer any other questions that you may have.
>>
>> Jarrad
>> BlackBearPerformance.com
>> Like us on Facebook!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Black Bear Performance Contact Form Submission
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> SUBMITTED: 12/29/2014 4:21:03 PM
>> FROM: Don Miller
>> EMAIL:
>> LOCATION:
>> PHONE:
>> PREFERRED CONTACT: email
>>
>> VEHICLE: 2012 Chevy Tahoe
>> MODIFICATIONS:
>>
>> QUESTION/COMMENT:
>> It's always nice to locate a business with such a good reputation for customer service as you. I posted a question on a Chevy performance message board but the answers were inconclusive. I'm sold on a Blackbear tune and will be sending my ecm this week. My question is regarding additional mods such as a Cold air intake, an aftermarket MAF, and a TB spacer. Would these mods be effective with your tuning service? Would an increase in either HP or gas mileage be realized by including these mods along with your tune? As soon as I get a reply I will start the process of sending my ECM. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> SUBMISSION DETAILS: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/33.0
>> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/contact.asp
>>
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------
Second Email Thread, January 5th - January 7th -- Difficulty installing software, we suggested that he use a different browser. Don claims in this thread that he was responsible for that, no thanks to BBP.
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Don,
>
> Okay that sounds good. Please let us know if you continue to have issues.
>
> Thanks,
> Jarrad
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> I use Firefox but I've not tried a different browser. I'll fire up the
>> laptop tonight and try to access v7 using different browsers. If that
>> works then I;ll uninstall v8 and download v7. Sorry to be such a pain in
>> the arse but I'm just a little afraid that I'm getting over my head.
>>
>> I installed the CAI today and am looking forward to seeing what a
>> Blackbear tune will do.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 5:39 PM, Black Bear Performance
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear you are still having issues. That is very odd that you
>> are able to see it on your desktop but not your laptop. Windows 7 should not
>> make a difference. The software is compatible Windows 95 all the way up to
>> Windows 8. We have Windows 7 and Windows 8 on our various work laptops and
>> are able to download the v7.5 software. Which browser are you using? Have
>> you tried using Google Chrome? If you are using Google Chrome, have you
>> tried Internet Explorer?
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> The location included with the printed instructions direct you to download
>> v7 software at www.efilive.com. This does not match the location included
>> in this email from you. I don't know if this has something to do with me
>> not being able to see v7 when I use my laptop or not. Using my desktop the
>> gray button and v7 download is visible but for some mysterious reason there
>> is no gray button when using my laptop. Now I have v8 loaded and a
>> nightmare.
>>
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Tue, 1/6/15, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: General & Tune Sales Questions - Don Miller -
>>
>> To: "Don Miller" <>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 5:23 PM
>>
>> Hello Don,
>> You will need to download V7.5. Please use the
>> link below to download the software:
>> www.efilive.com/latest/cat/download-efilive
>>
>> The 7.5 software is downloaded using the gray
>> button.
>> Thanks,Jarrad
>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at
>> 11:25 AM, Don Miller <>
>> wrote:
>> Black
>> Bear Performance Contact Form Submission
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>
>> SUBMITTED: 1/5/2015 2:25:21 PM
>>
>> FROM: Don Miller
>>
>> EMAIL:
>>
>> LOCATION:
>>
>> PHONE: ***-***-xxxx
>>
>> PREFERRED CONTACT: email
>>
>>
>>
>> VEHICLE:
>>
>> MODIFICATIONS:
>>
>>
>>
>> QUESTION/COMMENT:
>>
>> I ordered a Cable Scan Tune. The instructions I received
>> was to download v7.5 from efilive. I don't see a v7.5
>> but i do see a v 8. I feel sure that this is the correct
>> software updated since the instructions were sent. I just
>> want to make sure I'm downloading the correct softwear.
>>
>>
>> SUBMISSION DETAILS: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0;
>> Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; GTB7.5; SLCC2; .NET CLR
>> 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media
>> Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; AskTbGLSV5/5.8.0.12304)
>>
>> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/contact.asp
>>
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------
Third email chain, January 12th - January 15th -- Initial log file was sent, but instructions were not followed properly as too many parameters were selected.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Black Bear Performance <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> The E38.pid file is opened using the EFILive V7.5 scan tool's File / Open /
> Open PID selection file menu option. It cannot be opened with any other
> software.
>
> The AutoCal is $599 total which includes both the tune service and the
> hardware. Tuning would be on both the engine and transmission and you would
> be able to receive tune updates (as needed) by email as well as be able to
> return to stock when needed.
>
> Justin
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Justin
>>
>> I've tried everything but I cannot open that attachment. I found a screen
>> shot of the parameters in the instructions so I'll make another log using
>> only the 21 items that have been selected in the shot. I'm interested in
>> the Autocal depending on cost. Please send pricing and details.
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 7:07 PM, Black Bear Performance
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> Everything preliminarily looks good, however there are too many parameters
>> selected for me to be certain. Can you collect another log file with only
>> those parameters in the instructions? I have attached a selection file to
>> use to help with that purpose. To use this selection file, connect the
>> software to the truck and then go to the file / open / open PID selection
>> file option.
>>
>> I realize that we have discussed an ECM only tuning option in the previous
>> conversations, but if you are interested in a full tune (engine and
>> transmission), we do have that option available with our AutoCal. All
>> tuning would be completed by email in that situation.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>>
>> Please let me know if I need to send another log.
>>
>>
>> Don Miller
>>
>>
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
Fourth Email Chain, Monday January 19th at 7am -- In response to a log file sent in to us in Fifth email chain on Thursday January 15th at 7:15am. Two business days later, not a week.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
> I emailed a log and Justin replied requesting I send another log. I emailed
> the second log a week ago but have not heard anything. Was the second log
> acceptable?
>
> Don Miller
Fifth Email Chain Part 1, January 15th - January 21st - Start at the bottom. Order request was made in the second email and then revised in the 4th email.
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Well I am so sorry to keep you up so late and away from your children. Do
> you clowns ever take responsibility for anything? I'm through with you and
> your condescending attitude. I want to see you make an attempt to explain
> yourself in the face of the documentation I have. I would really like to
> see you when someone at PayPal while looking at your emails asked you why
> you screwed this up so bad. Yeah I'll accept your challenge and if it cost
> me $400 so be it. When I get my money you'll get your equipment back or do
> you not understand big boy English. My position has not changed and will
> not change. Don't bother me again unless you have $400 in your hand. You
> want to know something funny....all you would have had to do was own your
> mistakes instead of blowing smoke and provide a better explanation of why
> you were asking for another $400 and none of this would have happened. The
> damned lies in Jarrad's email didn't do much to resolve anything either. It
> was obvious to me by the lies that the guy was simply attempting to save his
> bacon. You should have provided me with a legitimate reason for the second
> $400 and I would have a Black Bear tune by now. But wait, now you're
> denying you even asked for the additional $400. And Jarrad seemed to want
> to threaten me with some silliness about sending something to PayPal which I
> invited him to do. Not to make a big deal out of a baseless threat but I
> actually took it as a challenge which I gladly accept. I don't know what
> you think but this sure sounds like a threat to me. "If you want to
> continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all correspondence to
> PayPal." Now you're going to tell me that you have a real problem with
> reading comprehension and didn't quite see that as a threat the first time
> you read it. Like I said...do not bother me again unless you have $400 in
> your hand. have a great evening with your children you condescending ass.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 11:44 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> This is still a big misunderstanding or lack or comprehension. You were
> quoted the full tune price of $330 initially and when we re-ascertained that
> you were not able to have the transmission tuned, the revised price of $275
> for an ECM only tune was given to you. That was not a mistake, just a
> courtesy reduction on our part. That pricing difference was quoted to you
> before you agreed to begin any part of the process. If you go to our
> website and visit our Tuning Services page, which I expect you have done,
> you will see that the price is clearly listed at $330, which we quoted you.
> The only mistake in this process that was made on our part was to provide
> you with a link for a full tune for an 07 vehicle instead of an ECM only
> tune on a 2012, which we corrected right away. This first incorrect link
> was sent based on your VIN, which at quick glance resembles a 2007 due to
> the "7" in the 9th position.
>
> What has me very confused is the discussion of an additional DEPOSIT of
> $400... We are not asking that, we have never asked for that. As was laid
> out in the last email and in prior emails is that in order to proceed, we
> needed the tune service payment to be paid and if you are not sending in
> your ECM (and thus having your vehicle undrivable) a core charge on a
> replacement ECM, which is refunded when your OEM unit is replaced. As
> stated as well, if you wanted to avoid the core charge you could send your
> ECM in. As was also clearly laid out, you had only paid the deposit on the
> scan cable hardware, not for any tune service. Had we used that payment to
> complete the tune, there is no incentive for you to return the cable. It is
> on our website and is clearly in the email communication we had right off
> the bat that there is a separate scan cable security deposit and tune
> service payment. I'm not understanding where you have been lost with that,
> so if that explanation helps clarify, please let me know. My interest is in
> avoiding situations like this at all times as it detracts from our core
> business and if I need to update the website for better clarity, I will.
>
> It is also clearly on our website that the scan cable tune is not advisable
> for those with a 6 speed transmission, that the AutoCal is needed. It is
> even bolded under the AutoCal section to point that out. Your initial
> contact to us was that you wanted to get a tune for your vehicle and were
> considering sending in your ECM. We gave you the two options that would be
> most applicable under the assumption that you knew what you wanted based on
> the information initially provided and then the follow up email was where
> Jarrad reviewed the situation and provided the lower pricing. The follow up
> emails about the AutoCal were just to ensure that you knew what you were
> getting and weren't leaving anything on the table. No malicious intent, no
> desire to sell you more than you need, as our income is comparable on both
> options with the scan cable having a lower long term workload liability and
> thus an easier option for us.
>
> There is also no threat to you, we were just informing you that we provided
> the information that PayPal requested. PayPal stated that you had not
> received the item and wanted our documentation; we provided it. The item
> you paid for is a V2 scan cable (as you have not paid for a tune), which has
> been received as you have acknowledged in email as well as used to collect
> data for us. Just the facts which helps to protect us with PayPal.
>
> Just as with every one of our other 9500+ customers over the years, we would
> have put every effort into ensuring that you were perfectly happy with your
> tune to the best of our ability. We are sorry that it did not work out.
> All that we want at this point is our equipment back. I will ignore the
> rest of the unnecessary personal comments below, as I would rather spend
> time with my children before they go to bed and frankly. It is clear that
> your mind is made up regarding your perception of our interaction and it is
> not productive for me to spend any more time on this when there are 140
> other emails that need to be reviewed and answered from yesterday and today.
> I will ask Jarrad to let it go as well and we will just await the return of
> our equipment.
>
> Best Regards,
> Justin
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> First of all the cost of the tune was reduced because you made another
> mistake...one of several. I really didn't care about the cost as much as
> who I was doing business with. After reading your email I was so pissed off
> I wrote a very nasty reply, after all I'm only human, but better sense
> prevailed. I never once questioned you about cost. Although you continued
> to pitch an upgrade I can blame you for that. If that service (trans) was
> so important why did you wait two weeks to tell me about it. You can whine
> and cry all you want but the fact is that I paid a $400 deposit and if you
> sent me an email informing me that I would be required to pay another $400
> deposit please send it to me. Your email is useless as the only issue I had
> was being told it would take another $400 deposit after I had already sent
> you $400. Now I know that you're only human, hell you told me so, so you
> should understand how a consumer in this day would feel about you all of a
> sudden asking for an additional $400. I don't know you from Adam and if you
> think that I would just send you another $400 when there had been no mention
> of it before then your naive as hell. Yes you pitched an upgrade three or
> more times...so what? You pitched it, you never said it was mandatory just
> you couldn't tune the trans. Again a mistake, you should have known going
> in and you should have asked what tranny I had if that was so important.
> But then again you're only human and you make an occasional mistake....yeah
> right. I was clear about what I wanted from the very beginning and if I
> needed to do something else then it was you to inform me not. All I heard
> from you long after the process had begun was you couldn't tune the trans on
> my vehicle due to it having a 6 speed trans. Ok so you couldn't tune the
> trans. Show me anywhere in your material that requires a trans tune to
> complete the ECM mod. I'm not sure right now but I do believe your order
> form ask for vehicle information and if you require something other than
> what I was told then that's where the information concerning a 6 speed trans
> should be. You have attempted to paint a clear picture of what I did wrong
> and I hope you stick to that position. After all I'm only human. "You
> emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the morning of the 19th." I
> guess being human struck me again.....I apologize it was four days that time
> instead of five. To be honest when and how you replied was of no concern.
> I mistakenly considered you being very busy so how ever long it was going to
> take for you to reply was not an issue. I ncluded that only because I
> wanted to present a compete history of our communications. You continue to
> rattle on about how generous you were to reduce the cost from $330 to $275
> but that represents another mistake..you know for a human you sure do make a
> lot of mistakes. Here's what I think happened. You got busy, you forgot
> things, and then you maybe got just a little lazy and now you're attempting
> to cover your tail. If you had any integrity you would have owned your
> mistakes and not attempt to paint a pretty picture. Then again if you had
> any integrity you would have been clear concerning the cost in the first
> place. And again.....my issue is not with anything other than your telling
> me that I would need to send another $400 deposit that had never been
> discussed. I train business managers that if you don't present every detail
> to your customer on the front end it will appear that your trying to pull
> something. I don't make the rules I just follow them.
>
> Now to be quite honest both of us could have handled this in a far better
> way as to not end this with me thinking Black Bear is one of the most
> incompetent company's I have ever dealt with and you wouldn't have
> considered me such an ass. But that's how it goes in the big city. You
> screwed up and you know it but you have lied attempting to cover your tail I
> guess. I hate a liar and especially one that is attempting to fleece me.
> In closing regardless of your silly attempt to CYA and your reluctance to
> own your mistakes, even if you're human, I have zero desire to do any
> business with you. Yes I will continue down the charge back path and
> BTW...you seem to be threatening me by telling me that if I continue down
> that path you will have to send what you have to PayPal. You do that my
> friend.....I both hope and invite you to challenge me and the documentation
> I have. Your email attempts to talk around the issue of the additional $400
> deposit which was never mentioned before everything was done. As I said I
> have no desire to keep your equipment but at this point I have no trust in
> you to do the right thing so I'll just hold on to it until I have my money
> returned.
> Not that you would give a damn but I'm very disappointed that I will not
> realize what your tune might have done for my 6 speed Tahoe.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:54 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Don,
>
> The initial $400 is the deposit for the Scan Cable. You are correct that we
> then sent you a link to pay for the tuning service and at first it was the
> wrong dollar amount. We deal with numerous Scan Cable logs on a daily basis
> and we occasionally send out the wrong dollar amount. We are only human and
> for that we sincerley apologize. We updated the link for you and explained
> what the payment was for. It was not another deposit as you have mentioned.
> It was $275 for the tuning service and $140 for us to send a tuned ECM out
> to you (if you want to send your ECM in, that's perfectly okay and the link
> would have been reduced to just $275 for the tuning service). Once you
> returned the ECM you have now, the $140 would be refunded to you as well as
> the $400 for the scan cable once that is returned. In the end, you would
> have only paid $275 for the tuning service and would have been refunded $540
> for the ECM and Cable. This was also explained in our initial email back to
> you on 12/30/14. When describing the Scan Cable service, it is clearly
> outlined that there is a deposit for the cable and a separate fee for the
> tuning service. We also mentioned in that email that only the AutoCal would
> allow us to tune the engine and transmission. This is due to your year
> vehicle and having a 6 speed. This is also clearly stated in our FAQs. You
> responded to that email that you wanted to the Scan Cable Tune. In our
> response back to you on January 1st, we mention again that the Scan Cable
> Tune will only allow us to tune the engine and we decreased our Scan Cable
> price from $330 to $275 because of that. You chose to proceed with the Scan
> Cable option despite two notifications on our end that we can only tune the
> engine with that option. The inability to tune your transmission with the
> scan cable tune was clearly noted.
>
> On January 5th, you emailed us notifying us that you were having issues
> downloading the software. We let you know where to go to download the
> software. You sent three follow up emails and in the second one mentioned a
> refund (the only time mentioned). Before we had a chance to respond to
> that, you sent the third one again saying of the issues downloading the
> software, but you did not mention a refund again. We sent an email
> explaining that we have 4 different laptops and have no issues downloading
> the software and suggested using a different browser which seemed to work
> because you were able to successfully download the software and do the data
> logging. On January 14th, when we reviewed your first log, we mentioned a
> third time that only the AutoCal would enable us to tune both the engine and
> transmission. You chose once again to continue with the Scan Cable option.
>
> You mentioned that it takes five days to get back to you. In reviewing the
> email chain, the longest it has taken to get back to you is 2 business days.
> The instance of five days as you mentioned included two weekend days which
> we are not working. You emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the
> morning of the 19th.
>
> If you want to continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all
> correspondence to PayPal. We offered to have you return the equipment and
> we refund your deposit. The email chain clearly mentions the pricing for
> the Scan Cable, that you were notified on three separate occasions that the
> option you chose limited our tuning capabilities, and that you do in fact
> have our equipment which is contrary to your claim. Our hope is that you
> drop the claim, return our cable and we will be more than happy to refund
> your deposit. Our equipment is of more value than your deposit. We
> apologize that is has gotten to this point.
>
> Thanks,
> Jarrad
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> I have no desire to keep your equipment and as soon as I receive
> conformation that my money has been returned to my account I will return it.
> BTW....I had asked twice before if I could send the equipment back and we
> just forget about it. Both request were ignored. So maybe you should
> school me on how to handle this after two suggestions we just cut our losses
> and go our separate
> I'll tell you what's going on. You have made so many mistakes both
> concerning the process and the money required that I became concerned just
> what I was dealing with. I followed every instruction that I was given and
> the target kept moving. The original deposit went from $400 to $415 to $420
> and the straw was you asking for another $400 deposit on top of my already
> paid $400. NOWHERE have I read anything about an $800 deposit and never did
> you say anything about an $800 deposit. You sent the wrong link to place
> the order. The form I was asked to complete was for an entirely different
> vehicle so I had to complete another order, which was no problem. You
> supposedly perform this task every day yet you send me the wrong info
> concerning money, the process, and then I'm told you even sent me the link
> to the wrong vehicle. Shortly after I sent the log you informed me that I
> would have to send another $400 deposit.... for what I have no clue. That
> would be $800 of my money you would have and all I would have is a useless
> piece of equipment.....useless to me anyway. You have no idea how
> disappointed I am that this turned out this way but I couldn't understand
> how someone that performs this task on a Tahoe probably every day could make
> so many mistakes and then asking for another $400 raised a flag. I have all
> of our communications printed and brother if you read these in order I
> believe you could understand my concern. The bank sure did. My friends who
> were interested in this process since the beginning were very interested in
> the results but after reading our communications they are also very confused
> why you could make so many mistakes if in fact these were MISTAKES and
> nobody understands why you would require an $800 deposit. I place the order
> and submit what was first a $400 deposit. I received an email that you sent
> me the wrong link to place the order and I would have to follow a new link
> to place the order. This new form required a $415 deposit. THEN as I was
> looking for more information the original deposit of $400 had increased to
> $420. So all of that was done and I begin building a log. First one was
> bad so I sent another and was informed that it was perfect. Then I receive
> an email from you informing me that I would need to post yet another $400
> deposit for a reason that was not close to being clear. AND NOW I READ THAT
> YOUR PROCESS WILL NOT WORK ON A TAHOE WITH A 6 SPEED TRANS. Don't ya think
> this is a question that should be asked on the front end of the process. Or
> are you ignoring that little piece of information so you can tell me later
> that you are unable to complete the procedure on my vehicle. Before
> disputing the original $400 I asked a couple of friends to view the emails
> that I received and every person that read these emails just smiled and said
> good luck. Nobody can contact you and it takes days for you to reply to
> emails sent to you. If your so busy you can't talk to your customers on the
> phone and it takes sometimes up to 5 days to receive a reply just what the
> hell are you doing? If your that busy I have to assume you're dealing with
> the process many times a day and should be very familiar with such minor
> items as to how much deposit a specific order would require a good thing to
> ask would be if someone has a 6 speed trans which I've read your process
> will not be effective with this trans. I'm convinced a "tune" would be very
> effective and I will research other possibilities. I apologize for the rant
> and the attitude.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 1:33 AM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> What is going on Don? We just received a chargeback notification from
> PayPal. I haven't heard back from you since the reply yesterday. Did you
> receive that below? If you want to return the scan cable for a refund and
> cancel the process, that is fine. Initiating a chargeback without returning
> the equipment is not the way to go about that though.
> Hope to hear from you soon on this matter. That scan cable is important to
> our business.
> Justin
> On Jan 19, 2015 9:05 PM, "Black Bear Performance"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> That $400 is a security deposit and must be kept separate from the tune
> payment. Once the cable is returned to us, that deposit is refunded.
>
> I accidentally sent the wrong link earlier though, as it was for a 99-07
> classic vehicle which has a $100 PCM deposit. Your situation is different
> as we can only tune your ECM remotely with this method. The tune service is
> $275 instead of $330 and the ECM deposit is $140 instead of $100. This link
> is the correct link for your vehicle:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=l$l;t0&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> When all is said and done, your total will be $275 for the tune service.
> The $140 ECM deposit is refunded if you decide to return your OEM ECM and
> the $400 scan cable security deposit is refunded when you send that cable
> back.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> This is a PayPal record of my payment to Blackbear in the amount of $400.oo
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Monday, January 19, 2015 3:47 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Don, your log file here looks great. Please see this link here to
> proceed with the tune order:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=i6!d50&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Justin, this is the second log I will have sent. I can make as many as you
> need to get it correct and provide you with the data you need.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Well I am so sorry to keep you up so late and away from your children. Do
> you clowns ever take responsibility for anything? I'm through with you and
> your condescending attitude. I want to see you make an attempt to explain
> yourself in the face of the documentation I have. I would really like to
> see you when someone at PayPal while looking at your emails asked you why
> you screwed this up so bad. Yeah I'll accept your challenge and if it cost
> me $400 so be it. When I get my money you'll get your equipment back or do
> you not understand big boy English. My position has not changed and will
> not change. Don't bother me again unless you have $400 in your hand. You
> want to know something funny....all you would have had to do was own your
> mistakes instead of blowing smoke and provide a better explanation of why
> you were asking for another $400 and none of this would have happened. The
> damned lies in Jarrad's email didn't do much to resolve anything either. It
> was obvious to me by the lies that the guy was simply attempting to save his
> bacon. You should have provided me with a legitimate reason for the second
> $400 and I would have a Black Bear tune by now. But wait, now you're
> denying you even asked for the additional $400. And Jarrad seemed to want
> to threaten me with some silliness about sending something to PayPal which I
> invited him to do. Not to make a big deal out of a baseless threat but I
> actually took it as a challenge which I gladly accept. I don't know what
> you think but this sure sounds like a threat to me. "If you want to
> continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all correspondence to
> PayPal." Now you're going to tell me that you have a real problem with
> reading comprehension and didn't quite see that as a threat the first time
> you read it. Like I said...do not bother me again unless you have $400 in
> your hand. have a great evening with your children you condescending ass.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 11:44 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> This is still a big misunderstanding or lack or comprehension. You were
> quoted the full tune price of $330 initially and when we re-ascertained that
> you were not able to have the transmission tuned, the revised price of $275
> for an ECM only tune was given to you. That was not a mistake, just a
> courtesy reduction on our part. That pricing difference was quoted to you
> before you agreed to begin any part of the process. If you go to our
> website and visit our Tuning Services page, which I expect you have done,
> you will see that the price is clearly listed at $330, which we quoted you.
> The only mistake in this process that was made on our part was to provide
> you with a link for a full tune for an 07 vehicle instead of an ECM only
> tune on a 2012, which we corrected right away. This first incorrect link
> was sent based on your VIN, which at quick glance resembles a 2007 due to
> the "7" in the 9th position.
>
> What has me very confused is the discussion of an additional DEPOSIT of
> $400... We are not asking that, we have never asked for that. As was laid
> out in the last email and in prior emails is that in order to proceed, we
> needed the tune service payment to be paid and if you are not sending in
> your ECM (and thus having your vehicle undrivable) a core charge on a
> replacement ECM, which is refunded when your OEM unit is replaced. As
> stated as well, if you wanted to avoid the core charge you could send your
> ECM in. As was also clearly laid out, you had only paid the deposit on the
> scan cable hardware, not for any tune service. Had we used that payment to
> complete the tune, there is no incentive for you to return the cable. It is
> on our website and is clearly in the email communication we had right off
> the bat that there is a separate scan cable security deposit and tune
> service payment. I'm not understanding where you have been lost with that,
> so if that explanation helps clarify, please let me know. My interest is in
> avoiding situations like this at all times as it detracts from our core
> business and if I need to update the website for better clarity, I will.
>
> It is also clearly on our website that the scan cable tune is not advisable
> for those with a 6 speed transmission, that the AutoCal is needed. It is
> even bolded under the AutoCal section to point that out. Your initial
> contact to us was that you wanted to get a tune for your vehicle and were
> considering sending in your ECM. We gave you the two options that would be
> most applicable under the assumption that you knew what you wanted based on
> the information initially provided and then the follow up email was where
> Jarrad reviewed the situation and provided the lower pricing. The follow up
> emails about the AutoCal were just to ensure that you knew what you were
> getting and weren't leaving anything on the table. No malicious intent, no
> desire to sell you more than you need, as our income is comparable on both
> options with the scan cable having a lower long term workload liability and
> thus an easier option for us.
>
> There is also no threat to you, we were just informing you that we provided
> the information that PayPal requested. PayPal stated that you had not
> received the item and wanted our documentation; we provided it. The item
> you paid for is a V2 scan cable (as you have not paid for a tune), which has
> been received as you have acknowledged in email as well as used to collect
> data for us. Just the facts which helps to protect us with PayPal.
>
> Just as with every one of our other 9500+ customers over the years, we would
> have put every effort into ensuring that you were perfectly happy with your
> tune to the best of our ability. We are sorry that it did not work out.
> All that we want at this point is our equipment back. I will ignore the
> rest of the unnecessary personal comments below, as I would rather spend
> time with my children before they go to bed and frankly. It is clear that
> your mind is made up regarding your perception of our interaction and it is
> not productive for me to spend any more time on this when there are 140
> other emails that need to be reviewed and answered from yesterday and today.
> I will ask Jarrad to let it go as well and we will just await the return of
> our equipment.
>
> Best Regards,
> Justin
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> First of all the cost of the tune was reduced because you made another
> mistake...one of several. I really didn't care about the cost as much as
> who I was doing business with. After reading your email I was so pissed off
> I wrote a very nasty reply, after all I'm only human, but better sense
> prevailed. I never once questioned you about cost. Although you continued
> to pitch an upgrade I can blame you for that. If that service (trans) was
> so important why did you wait two weeks to tell me about it. You can whine
> and cry all you want but the fact is that I paid a $400 deposit and if you
> sent me an email informing me that I would be required to pay another $400
> deposit please send it to me. Your email is useless as the only issue I had
> was being told it would take another $400 deposit after I had already sent
> you $400. Now I know that you're only human, hell you told me so, so you
> should understand how a consumer in this day would feel about you all of a
> sudden asking for an additional $400. I don't know you from Adam and if you
> think that I would just send you another $400 when there had been no mention
> of it before then your naive as hell. Yes you pitched an upgrade three or
> more times...so what? You pitched it, you never said it was mandatory just
> you couldn't tune the trans. Again a mistake, you should have known going
> in and you should have asked what tranny I had if that was so important.
> But then again you're only human and you make an occasional mistake....yeah
> right. I was clear about what I wanted from the very beginning and if I
> needed to do something else then it was you to inform me not. All I heard
> from you long after the process had begun was you couldn't tune the trans on
> my vehicle due to it having a 6 speed trans. Ok so you couldn't tune the
> trans. Show me anywhere in your material that requires a trans tune to
> complete the ECM mod. I'm not sure right now but I do believe your order
> form ask for vehicle information and if you require something other than
> what I was told then that's where the information concerning a 6 speed trans
> should be. You have attempted to paint a clear picture of what I did wrong
> and I hope you stick to that position. After all I'm only human. "You
> emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the morning of the 19th." I
> guess being human struck me again.....I apologize it was four days that time
> instead of five. To be honest when and how you replied was of no concern.
> I mistakenly considered you being very busy so how ever long it was going to
> take for you to reply was not an issue. I ncluded that only because I
> wanted to present a compete history of our communications. You continue to
> rattle on about how generous you were to reduce the cost from $330 to $275
> but that represents another mistake..you know for a human you sure do make a
> lot of mistakes. Here's what I think happened. You got busy, you forgot
> things, and then you maybe got just a little lazy and now you're attempting
> to cover your tail. If you had any integrity you would have owned your
> mistakes and not attempt to paint a pretty picture. Then again if you had
> any integrity you would have been clear concerning the cost in the first
> place. And again.....my issue is not with anything other than your telling
> me that I would need to send another $400 deposit that had never been
> discussed. I train business managers that if you don't present every detail
> to your customer on the front end it will appear that your trying to pull
> something. I don't make the rules I just follow them.
>
> Now to be quite honest both of us could have handled this in a far better
> way as to not end this with me thinking Black Bear is one of the most
> incompetent company's I have ever dealt with and you wouldn't have
> considered me such an ass. But that's how it goes in the big city. You
> screwed up and you know it but you have lied attempting to cover your tail I
> guess. I hate a liar and especially one that is attempting to fleece me.
> In closing regardless of your silly attempt to CYA and your reluctance to
> own your mistakes, even if you're human, I have zero desire to do any
> business with you. Yes I will continue down the charge back path and
> BTW...you seem to be threatening me by telling me that if I continue down
> that path you will have to send what you have to PayPal. You do that my
> friend.....I both hope and invite you to challenge me and the documentation
> I have. Your email attempts to talk around the issue of the additional $400
> deposit which was never mentioned before everything was done. As I said I
> have no desire to keep your equipment but at this point I have no trust in
> you to do the right thing so I'll just hold on to it until I have my money
> returned.
> Not that you would give a damn but I'm very disappointed that I will not
> realize what your tune might have done for my 6 speed Tahoe.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:54 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Don,
>
> The initial $400 is the deposit for the Scan Cable. You are correct that we
> then sent you a link to pay for the tuning service and at first it was the
> wrong dollar amount. We deal with numerous Scan Cable logs on a daily basis
> and we occasionally send out the wrong dollar amount. We are only human and
> for that we sincerley apologize. We updated the link for you and explained
> what the payment was for. It was not another deposit as you have mentioned.
> It was $275 for the tuning service and $140 for us to send a tuned ECM out
> to you (if you want to send your ECM in, that's perfectly okay and the link
> would have been reduced to just $275 for the tuning service). Once you
> returned the ECM you have now, the $140 would be refunded to you as well as
> the $400 for the scan cable once that is returned. In the end, you would
> have only paid $275 for the tuning service and would have been refunded $540
> for the ECM and Cable. This was also explained in our initial email back to
> you on 12/30/14. When describing the Scan Cable service, it is clearly
> outlined that there is a deposit for the cable and a separate fee for the
> tuning service. We also mentioned in that email that only the AutoCal would
> allow us to tune the engine and transmission. This is due to your year
> vehicle and having a 6 speed. This is also clearly stated in our FAQs. You
> responded to that email that you wanted to the Scan Cable Tune. In our
> response back to you on January 1st, we mention again that the Scan Cable
> Tune will only allow us to tune the engine and we decreased our Scan Cable
> price from $330 to $275 because of that. You chose to proceed with the Scan
> Cable option despite two notifications on our end that we can only tune the
> engine with that option. The inability to tune your transmission with the
> scan cable tune was clearly noted.
>
> On January 5th, you emailed us notifying us that you were having issues
> downloading the software. We let you know where to go to download the
> software. You sent three follow up emails and in the second one mentioned a
> refund (the only time mentioned). Before we had a chance to respond to
> that, you sent the third one again saying of the issues downloading the
> software, but you did not mention a refund again. We sent an email
> explaining that we have 4 different laptops and have no issues downloading
> the software and suggested using a different browser which seemed to work
> because you were able to successfully download the software and do the data
> logging. On January 14th, when we reviewed your first log, we mentioned a
> third time that only the AutoCal would enable us to tune both the engine and
> transmission. You chose once again to continue with the Scan Cable option.
>
> You mentioned that it takes five days to get back to you. In reviewing the
> email chain, the longest it has taken to get back to you is 2 business days.
> The instance of five days as you mentioned included two weekend days which
> we are not working. You emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the
> morning of the 19th.
>
> If you want to continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all
> correspondence to PayPal. We offered to have you return the equipment and
> we refund your deposit. The email chain clearly mentions the pricing for
> the Scan Cable, that you were notified on three separate occasions that the
> option you chose limited our tuning capabilities, and that you do in fact
> have our equipment which is contrary to your claim. Our hope is that you
> drop the claim, return our cable and we will be more than happy to refund
> your deposit. Our equipment is of more value than your deposit. We
> apologize that is has gotten to this point.
>
> Thanks,
> Jarrad
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> I have no desire to keep your equipment and as soon as I receive
> conformation that my money has been returned to my account I will return it.
> BTW....I had asked twice before if I could send the equipment back and we
> just forget about it. Both request were ignored. So maybe you should
> school me on how to handle this after two suggestions we just cut our losses
> and go our separate
> I'll tell you what's going on. You have made so many mistakes both
> concerning the process and the money required that I became concerned just
> what I was dealing with. I followed every instruction that I was given and
> the target kept moving. The original deposit went from $400 to $415 to $420
> and the straw was you asking for another $400 deposit on top of my already
> paid $400. NOWHERE have I read anything about an $800 deposit and never did
> you say anything about an $800 deposit. You sent the wrong link to place
> the order. The form I was asked to complete was for an entirely different
> vehicle so I had to complete another order, which was no problem. You
> supposedly perform this task every day yet you send me the wrong info
> concerning money, the process, and then I'm told you even sent me the link
> to the wrong vehicle. Shortly after I sent the log you informed me that I
> would have to send another $400 deposit.... for what I have no clue. That
> would be $800 of my money you would have and all I would have is a useless
> piece of equipment.....useless to me anyway. You have no idea how
> disappointed I am that this turned out this way but I couldn't understand
> how someone that performs this task on a Tahoe probably every day could make
> so many mistakes and then asking for another $400 raised a flag. I have all
> of our communications printed and brother if you read these in order I
> believe you could understand my concern. The bank sure did. My friends who
> were interested in this process since the beginning were very interested in
> the results but after reading our communications they are also very confused
> why you could make so many mistakes if in fact these were MISTAKES and
> nobody understands why you would require an $800 deposit. I place the order
> and submit what was first a $400 deposit. I received an email that you sent
> me the wrong link to place the order and I would have to follow a new link
> to place the order. This new form required a $415 deposit. THEN as I was
> looking for more information the original deposit of $400 had increased to
> $420. So all of that was done and I begin building a log. First one was
> bad so I sent another and was informed that it was perfect. Then I receive
> an email from you informing me that I would need to post yet another $400
> deposit for a reason that was not close to being clear. AND NOW I READ THAT
> YOUR PROCESS WILL NOT WORK ON A TAHOE WITH A 6 SPEED TRANS. Don't ya think
> this is a question that should be asked on the front end of the process. Or
> are you ignoring that little piece of information so you can tell me later
> that you are unable to complete the procedure on my vehicle. Before
> disputing the original $400 I asked a couple of friends to view the emails
> that I received and every person that read these emails just smiled and said
> good luck. Nobody can contact you and it takes days for you to reply to
> emails sent to you. If your so busy you can't talk to your customers on the
> phone and it takes sometimes up to 5 days to receive a reply just what the
> hell are you doing? If your that busy I have to assume you're dealing with
> the process many times a day and should be very familiar with such minor
> items as to how much deposit a specific order would require a good thing to
> ask would be if someone has a 6 speed trans which I've read your process
> will not be effective with this trans. I'm convinced a "tune" would be very
> effective and I will research other possibilities. I apologize for the rant
> and the attitude.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 1:33 AM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> What is going on Don? We just received a chargeback notification from
> PayPal. I haven't heard back from you since the reply yesterday. Did you
> receive that below? If you want to return the scan cable for a refund and
> cancel the process, that is fine. Initiating a chargeback without returning
> the equipment is not the way to go about that though.
> Hope to hear from you soon on this matter. That scan cable is important to
> our business.
> Justin
> On Jan 19, 2015 9:05 PM, "Black Bear Performance"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> That $400 is a security deposit and must be kept separate from the tune
> payment. Once the cable is returned to us, that deposit is refunded.
>
> I accidentally sent the wrong link earlier though, as it was for a 99-07
> classic vehicle which has a $100 PCM deposit. Your situation is different
> as we can only tune your ECM remotely with this method. The tune service is
> $275 instead of $330 and the ECM deposit is $140 instead of $100. This link
> is the correct link for your vehicle:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=l$l;t0&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> When all is said and done, your total will be $275 for the tune service.
> The $140 ECM deposit is refunded if you decide to return your OEM ECM and
> the $400 scan cable security deposit is refunded when you send that cable
> back.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> This is a PayPal record of my payment to Blackbear in the amount of $400.oo
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Monday, January 19, 2015 3:47 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Don, your log file here looks great. Please see this link here to
> proceed with the tune order:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=i6!d50&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Justin, this is the second log I will have sent. I can make as many as you
> need to get it correct and provide you with the data you need.
>
> Don Miller
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Well I am so sorry to keep you up so late and away from your children. Do
> you clowns ever take responsibility for anything? I'm through with you and
> your condescending attitude. I want to see you make an attempt to explain
> yourself in the face of the documentation I have. I would really like to
> see you when someone at PayPal while looking at your emails asked you why
> you screwed this up so bad. Yeah I'll accept your challenge and if it cost
> me $400 so be it. When I get my money you'll get your equipment back or do
> you not understand big boy English. My position has not changed and will
> not change. Don't bother me again unless you have $400 in your hand. You
> want to know something funny....all you would have had to do was own your
> mistakes instead of blowing smoke and provide a better explanation of why
> you were asking for another $400 and none of this would have happened. The
> damned lies in Jarrad's email didn't do much to resolve anything either. It
> was obvious to me by the lies that the guy was simply attempting to save his
> bacon. You should have provided me with a legitimate reason for the second
> $400 and I would have a Black Bear tune by now. But wait, now you're
> denying you even asked for the additional $400. And Jarrad seemed to want
> to threaten me with some silliness about sending something to PayPal which I
> invited him to do. Not to make a big deal out of a baseless threat but I
> actually took it as a challenge which I gladly accept. I don't know what
> you think but this sure sounds like a threat to me. "If you want to
> continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all correspondence to
> PayPal." Now you're going to tell me that you have a real problem with
> reading comprehension and didn't quite see that as a threat the first time
> you read it. Like I said...do not bother me again unless you have $400 in
> your hand. have a great evening with your children you condescending ass.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 11:44 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> This is still a big misunderstanding or lack or comprehension. You were
> quoted the full tune price of $330 initially and when we re-ascertained that
> you were not able to have the transmission tuned, the revised price of $275
> for an ECM only tune was given to you. That was not a mistake, just a
> courtesy reduction on our part. That pricing difference was quoted to you
> before you agreed to begin any part of the process. If you go to our
> website and visit our Tuning Services page, which I expect you have done,
> you will see that the price is clearly listed at $330, which we quoted you.
> The only mistake in this process that was made on our part was to provide
> you with a link for a full tune for an 07 vehicle instead of an ECM only
> tune on a 2012, which we corrected right away. This first incorrect link
> was sent based on your VIN, which at quick glance resembles a 2007 due to
> the "7" in the 9th position.
>
> What has me very confused is the discussion of an additional DEPOSIT of
> $400... We are not asking that, we have never asked for that. As was laid
> out in the last email and in prior emails is that in order to proceed, we
> needed the tune service payment to be paid and if you are not sending in
> your ECM (and thus having your vehicle undrivable) a core charge on a
> replacement ECM, which is refunded when your OEM unit is replaced. As
> stated as well, if you wanted to avoid the core charge you could send your
> ECM in. As was also clearly laid out, you had only paid the deposit on the
> scan cable hardware, not for any tune service. Had we used that payment to
> complete the tune, there is no incentive for you to return the cable. It is
> on our website and is clearly in the email communication we had right off
> the bat that there is a separate scan cable security deposit and tune
> service payment. I'm not understanding where you have been lost with that,
> so if that explanation helps clarify, please let me know. My interest is in
> avoiding situations like this at all times as it detracts from our core
> business and if I need to update the website for better clarity, I will.
>
> It is also clearly on our website that the scan cable tune is not advisable
> for those with a 6 speed transmission, that the AutoCal is needed. It is
> even bolded under the AutoCal section to point that out. Your initial
> contact to us was that you wanted to get a tune for your vehicle and were
> considering sending in your ECM. We gave you the two options that would be
> most applicable under the assumption that you knew what you wanted based on
> the information initially provided and then the follow up email was where
> Jarrad reviewed the situation and provided the lower pricing. The follow up
> emails about the AutoCal were just to ensure that you knew what you were
> getting and weren't leaving anything on the table. No malicious intent, no
> desire to sell you more than you need, as our income is comparable on both
> options with the scan cable having a lower long term workload liability and
> thus an easier option for us.
>
> There is also no threat to you, we were just informing you that we provided
> the information that PayPal requested. PayPal stated that you had not
> received the item and wanted our documentation; we provided it. The item
> you paid for is a V2 scan cable (as you have not paid for a tune), which has
> been received as you have acknowledged in email as well as used to collect
> data for us. Just the facts which helps to protect us with PayPal.
>
> Just as with every one of our other 9500+ customers over the years, we would
> have put every effort into ensuring that you were perfectly happy with your
> tune to the best of our ability. We are sorry that it did not work out.
> All that we want at this point is our equipment back. I will ignore the
> rest of the unnecessary personal comments below, as I would rather spend
> time with my children before they go to bed and frankly. It is clear that
> your mind is made up regarding your perception of our interaction and it is
> not productive for me to spend any more time on this when there are 140
> other emails that need to be reviewed and answered from yesterday and today.
> I will ask Jarrad to let it go as well and we will just await the return of
> our equipment.
>
> Best Regards,
> Justin
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> First of all the cost of the tune was reduced because you made another
> mistake...one of several. I really didn't care about the cost as much as
> who I was doing business with. After reading your email I was so pissed off
> I wrote a very nasty reply, after all I'm only human, but better sense
> prevailed. I never once questioned you about cost. Although you continued
> to pitch an upgrade I can blame you for that. If that service (trans) was
> so important why did you wait two weeks to tell me about it. You can whine
> and cry all you want but the fact is that I paid a $400 deposit and if you
> sent me an email informing me that I would be required to pay another $400
> deposit please send it to me. Your email is useless as the only issue I had
> was being told it would take another $400 deposit after I had already sent
> you $400. Now I know that you're only human, hell you told me so, so you
> should understand how a consumer in this day would feel about you all of a
> sudden asking for an additional $400. I don't know you from Adam and if you
> think that I would just send you another $400 when there had been no mention
> of it before then your naive as hell. Yes you pitched an upgrade three or
> more times...so what? You pitched it, you never said it was mandatory just
> you couldn't tune the trans. Again a mistake, you should have known going
> in and you should have asked what tranny I had if that was so important.
> But then again you're only human and you make an occasional mistake....yeah
> right. I was clear about what I wanted from the very beginning and if I
> needed to do something else then it was you to inform me not. All I heard
> from you long after the process had begun was you couldn't tune the trans on
> my vehicle due to it having a 6 speed trans. Ok so you couldn't tune the
> trans. Show me anywhere in your material that requires a trans tune to
> complete the ECM mod. I'm not sure right now but I do believe your order
> form ask for vehicle information and if you require something other than
> what I was told then that's where the information concerning a 6 speed trans
> should be. You have attempted to paint a clear picture of what I did wrong
> and I hope you stick to that position. After all I'm only human. "You
> emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the morning of the 19th." I
> guess being human struck me again.....I apologize it was four days that time
> instead of five. To be honest when and how you replied was of no concern.
> I mistakenly considered you being very busy so how ever long it was going to
> take for you to reply was not an issue. I ncluded that only because I
> wanted to present a compete history of our communications. You continue to
> rattle on about how generous you were to reduce the cost from $330 to $275
> but that represents another mistake..you know for a human you sure do make a
> lot of mistakes. Here's what I think happened. You got busy, you forgot
> things, and then you maybe got just a little lazy and now you're attempting
> to cover your tail. If you had any integrity you would have owned your
> mistakes and not attempt to paint a pretty picture. Then again if you had
> any integrity you would have been clear concerning the cost in the first
> place. And again.....my issue is not with anything other than your telling
> me that I would need to send another $400 deposit that had never been
> discussed. I train business managers that if you don't present every detail
> to your customer on the front end it will appear that your trying to pull
> something. I don't make the rules I just follow them.
>
> Now to be quite honest both of us could have handled this in a far better
> way as to not end this with me thinking Black Bear is one of the most
> incompetent company's I have ever dealt with and you wouldn't have
> considered me such an ass. But that's how it goes in the big city. You
> screwed up and you know it but you have lied attempting to cover your tail I
> guess. I hate a liar and especially one that is attempting to fleece me.
> In closing regardless of your silly attempt to CYA and your reluctance to
> own your mistakes, even if you're human, I have zero desire to do any
> business with you. Yes I will continue down the charge back path and
> BTW...you seem to be threatening me by telling me that if I continue down
> that path you will have to send what you have to PayPal. You do that my
> friend.....I both hope and invite you to challenge me and the documentation
> I have. Your email attempts to talk around the issue of the additional $400
> deposit which was never mentioned before everything was done. As I said I
> have no desire to keep your equipment but at this point I have no trust in
> you to do the right thing so I'll just hold on to it until I have my money
> returned.
> Not that you would give a damn but I'm very disappointed that I will not
> realize what your tune might have done for my 6 speed Tahoe.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:54 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Don,
>
> The initial $400 is the deposit for the Scan Cable. You are correct that we
> then sent you a link to pay for the tuning service and at first it was the
> wrong dollar amount. We deal with numerous Scan Cable logs on a daily basis
> and we occasionally send out the wrong dollar amount. We are only human and
> for that we sincerley apologize. We updated the link for you and explained
> what the payment was for. It was not another deposit as you have mentioned.
> It was $275 for the tuning service and $140 for us to send a tuned ECM out
> to you (if you want to send your ECM in, that's perfectly okay and the link
> would have been reduced to just $275 for the tuning service). Once you
> returned the ECM you have now, the $140 would be refunded to you as well as
> the $400 for the scan cable once that is returned. In the end, you would
> have only paid $275 for the tuning service and would have been refunded $540
> for the ECM and Cable. This was also explained in our initial email back to
> you on 12/30/14. When describing the Scan Cable service, it is clearly
> outlined that there is a deposit for the cable and a separate fee for the
> tuning service. We also mentioned in that email that only the AutoCal would
> allow us to tune the engine and transmission. This is due to your year
> vehicle and having a 6 speed. This is also clearly stated in our FAQs. You
> responded to that email that you wanted to the Scan Cable Tune. In our
> response back to you on January 1st, we mention again that the Scan Cable
> Tune will only allow us to tune the engine and we decreased our Scan Cable
> price from $330 to $275 because of that. You chose to proceed with the Scan
> Cable option despite two notifications on our end that we can only tune the
> engine with that option. The inability to tune your transmission with the
> scan cable tune was clearly noted.
>
> On January 5th, you emailed us notifying us that you were having issues
> downloading the software. We let you know where to go to download the
> software. You sent three follow up emails and in the second one mentioned a
> refund (the only time mentioned). Before we had a chance to respond to
> that, you sent the third one again saying of the issues downloading the
> software, but you did not mention a refund again. We sent an email
> explaining that we have 4 different laptops and have no issues downloading
> the software and suggested using a different browser which seemed to work
> because you were able to successfully download the software and do the data
> logging. On January 14th, when we reviewed your first log, we mentioned a
> third time that only the AutoCal would enable us to tune both the engine and
> transmission. You chose once again to continue with the Scan Cable option.
>
> You mentioned that it takes five days to get back to you. In reviewing the
> email chain, the longest it has taken to get back to you is 2 business days.
> The instance of five days as you mentioned included two weekend days which
> we are not working. You emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the
> morning of the 19th.
>
> If you want to continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all
> correspondence to PayPal. We offered to have you return the equipment and
> we refund your deposit. The email chain clearly mentions the pricing for
> the Scan Cable, that you were notified on three separate occasions that the
> option you chose limited our tuning capabilities, and that you do in fact
> have our equipment which is contrary to your claim. Our hope is that you
> drop the claim, return our cable and we will be more than happy to refund
> your deposit. Our equipment is of more value than your deposit. We
> apologize that is has gotten to this point.
>
> Thanks,
> Jarrad
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> I have no desire to keep your equipment and as soon as I receive
> conformation that my money has been returned to my account I will return it.
> BTW....I had asked twice before if I could send the equipment back and we
> just forget about it. Both request were ignored. So maybe you should
> school me on how to handle this after two suggestions we just cut our losses
> and go our separate
> I'll tell you what's going on. You have made so many mistakes both
> concerning the process and the money required that I became concerned just
> what I was dealing with. I followed every instruction that I was given and
> the target kept moving. The original deposit went from $400 to $415 to $420
> and the straw was you asking for another $400 deposit on top of my already
> paid $400. NOWHERE have I read anything about an $800 deposit and never did
> you say anything about an $800 deposit. You sent the wrong link to place
> the order. The form I was asked to complete was for an entirely different
> vehicle so I had to complete another order, which was no problem. You
> supposedly perform this task every day yet you send me the wrong info
> concerning money, the process, and then I'm told you even sent me the link
> to the wrong vehicle. Shortly after I sent the log you informed me that I
> would have to send another $400 deposit.... for what I have no clue. That
> would be $800 of my money you would have and all I would have is a useless
> piece of equipment.....useless to me anyway. You have no idea how
> disappointed I am that this turned out this way but I couldn't understand
> how someone that performs this task on a Tahoe probably every day could make
> so many mistakes and then asking for another $400 raised a flag. I have all
> of our communications printed and brother if you read these in order I
> believe you could understand my concern. The bank sure did. My friends who
> were interested in this process since the beginning were very interested in
> the results but after reading our communications they are also very confused
> why you could make so many mistakes if in fact these were MISTAKES and
> nobody understands why you would require an $800 deposit. I place the order
> and submit what was first a $400 deposit. I received an email that you sent
> me the wrong link to place the order and I would have to follow a new link
> to place the order. This new form required a $415 deposit. THEN as I was
> looking for more information the original deposit of $400 had increased to
> $420. So all of that was done and I begin building a log. First one was
> bad so I sent another and was informed that it was perfect. Then I receive
> an email from you informing me that I would need to post yet another $400
> deposit for a reason that was not close to being clear. AND NOW I READ THAT
> YOUR PROCESS WILL NOT WORK ON A TAHOE WITH A 6 SPEED TRANS. Don't ya think
> this is a question that should be asked on the front end of the process. Or
> are you ignoring that little piece of information so you can tell me later
> that you are unable to complete the procedure on my vehicle. Before
> disputing the original $400 I asked a couple of friends to view the emails
> that I received and every person that read these emails just smiled and said
> good luck. Nobody can contact you and it takes days for you to reply to
> emails sent to you. If your so busy you can't talk to your customers on the
> phone and it takes sometimes up to 5 days to receive a reply just what the
> hell are you doing? If your that busy I have to assume you're dealing with
> the process many times a day and should be very familiar with such minor
> items as to how much deposit a specific order would require a good thing to
> ask would be if someone has a 6 speed trans which I've read your process
> will not be effective with this trans. I'm convinced a "tune" would be very
> effective and I will research other possibilities. I apologize for the rant
> and the attitude.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 1:33 AM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> What is going on Don? We just received a chargeback notification from
> PayPal. I haven't heard back from you since the reply yesterday. Did you
> receive that below? If you want to return the scan cable for a refund and
> cancel the process, that is fine. Initiating a chargeback without returning
> the equipment is not the way to go about that though.
> Hope to hear from you soon on this matter. That scan cable is important to
> our business.
> Justin
> On Jan 19, 2015 9:05 PM, "Black Bear Performance"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> That $400 is a security deposit and must be kept separate from the tune
> payment. Once the cable is returned to us, that deposit is refunded.
>
> I accidentally sent the wrong link earlier though, as it was for a 99-07
> classic vehicle which has a $100 PCM deposit. Your situation is different
> as we can only tune your ECM remotely with this method. The tune service is
> $275 instead of $330 and the ECM deposit is $140 instead of $100. This link
> is the correct link for your vehicle:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=l$l;t0&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> When all is said and done, your total will be $275 for the tune service.
> The $140 ECM deposit is refunded if you decide to return your OEM ECM and
> the $400 scan cable security deposit is refunded when you send that cable
> back.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> This is a PayPal record of my payment to Blackbear in the amount of $400.oo
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Monday, January 19, 2015 3:47 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Don, your log file here looks great. Please see this link here to
> proceed with the tune order:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=i6!d50&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Justin, this is the second log I will have sent. I can make as many as you
> need to get it correct and provide you with the data you need.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Well I am so sorry to keep you up so late and away from your children. Do
> you clowns ever take responsibility for anything? I'm through with you and
> your condescending attitude. I want to see you make an attempt to explain
> yourself in the face of the documentation I have. I would really like to
> see you when someone at PayPal while looking at your emails asked you why
> you screwed this up so bad. Yeah I'll accept your challenge and if it cost
> me $400 so be it. When I get my money you'll get your equipment back or do
> you not understand big boy English. My position has not changed and will
> not change. Don't bother me again unless you have $400 in your hand. You
> want to know something funny....all you would have had to do was own your
> mistakes instead of blowing smoke and provide a better explanation of why
> you were asking for another $400 and none of this would have happened. The
> damned lies in Jarrad's email didn't do much to resolve anything either. It
> was obvious to me by the lies that the guy was simply attempting to save his
> bacon. You should have provided me with a legitimate reason for the second
> $400 and I would have a Black Bear tune by now. But wait, now you're
> denying you even asked for the additional $400. And Jarrad seemed to want
> to threaten me with some silliness about sending something to PayPal which I
> invited him to do. Not to make a big deal out of a baseless threat but I
> actually took it as a challenge which I gladly accept. I don't know what
> you think but this sure sounds like a threat to me. "If you want to
> continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all correspondence to
> PayPal." Now you're going to tell me that you have a real problem with
> reading comprehension and didn't quite see that as a threat the first time
> you read it. Like I said...do not bother me again unless you have $400 in
> your hand. have a great evening with your children you condescending ass.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 11:44 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> This is still a big misunderstanding or lack or comprehension. You were
> quoted the full tune price of $330 initially and when we re-ascertained that
> you were not able to have the transmission tuned, the revised price of $275
> for an ECM only tune was given to you. That was not a mistake, just a
> courtesy reduction on our part. That pricing difference was quoted to you
> before you agreed to begin any part of the process. If you go to our
> website and visit our Tuning Services page, which I expect you have done,
> you will see that the price is clearly listed at $330, which we quoted you.
> The only mistake in this process that was made on our part was to provide
> you with a link for a full tune for an 07 vehicle instead of an ECM only
> tune on a 2012, which we corrected right away. This first incorrect link
> was sent based on your VIN, which at quick glance resembles a 2007 due to
> the "7" in the 9th position.
>
> What has me very confused is the discussion of an additional DEPOSIT of
> $400... We are not asking that, we have never asked for that. As was laid
> out in the last email and in prior emails is that in order to proceed, we
> needed the tune service payment to be paid and if you are not sending in
> your ECM (and thus having your vehicle undrivable) a core charge on a
> replacement ECM, which is refunded when your OEM unit is replaced. As
> stated as well, if you wanted to avoid the core charge you could send your
> ECM in. As was also clearly laid out, you had only paid the deposit on the
> scan cable hardware, not for any tune service. Had we used that payment to
> complete the tune, there is no incentive for you to return the cable. It is
> on our website and is clearly in the email communication we had right off
> the bat that there is a separate scan cable security deposit and tune
> service payment. I'm not understanding where you have been lost with that,
> so if that explanation helps clarify, please let me know. My interest is in
> avoiding situations like this at all times as it detracts from our core
> business and if I need to update the website for better clarity, I will.
>
> It is also clearly on our website that the scan cable tune is not advisable
> for those with a 6 speed transmission, that the AutoCal is needed. It is
> even bolded under the AutoCal section to point that out. Your initial
> contact to us was that you wanted to get a tune for your vehicle and were
> considering sending in your ECM. We gave you the two options that would be
> most applicable under the assumption that you knew what you wanted based on
> the information initially provided and then the follow up email was where
> Jarrad reviewed the situation and provided the lower pricing. The follow up
> emails about the AutoCal were just to ensure that you knew what you were
> getting and weren't leaving anything on the table. No malicious intent, no
> desire to sell you more than you need, as our income is comparable on both
> options with the scan cable having a lower long term workload liability and
> thus an easier option for us.
>
> There is also no threat to you, we were just informing you that we provided
> the information that PayPal requested. PayPal stated that you had not
> received the item and wanted our documentation; we provided it. The item
> you paid for is a V2 scan cable (as you have not paid for a tune), which has
> been received as you have acknowledged in email as well as used to collect
> data for us. Just the facts which helps to protect us with PayPal.
>
> Just as with every one of our other 9500+ customers over the years, we would
> have put every effort into ensuring that you were perfectly happy with your
> tune to the best of our ability. We are sorry that it did not work out.
> All that we want at this point is our equipment back. I will ignore the
> rest of the unnecessary personal comments below, as I would rather spend
> time with my children before they go to bed and frankly. It is clear that
> your mind is made up regarding your perception of our interaction and it is
> not productive for me to spend any more time on this when there are 140
> other emails that need to be reviewed and answered from yesterday and today.
> I will ask Jarrad to let it go as well and we will just await the return of
> our equipment.
>
> Best Regards,
> Justin
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> First of all the cost of the tune was reduced because you made another
> mistake...one of several. I really didn't care about the cost as much as
> who I was doing business with. After reading your email I was so pissed off
> I wrote a very nasty reply, after all I'm only human, but better sense
> prevailed. I never once questioned you about cost. Although you continued
> to pitch an upgrade I can blame you for that. If that service (trans) was
> so important why did you wait two weeks to tell me about it. You can whine
> and cry all you want but the fact is that I paid a $400 deposit and if you
> sent me an email informing me that I would be required to pay another $400
> deposit please send it to me. Your email is useless as the only issue I had
> was being told it would take another $400 deposit after I had already sent
> you $400. Now I know that you're only human, hell you told me so, so you
> should understand how a consumer in this day would feel about you all of a
> sudden asking for an additional $400. I don't know you from Adam and if you
> think that I would just send you another $400 when there had been no mention
> of it before then your naive as hell. Yes you pitched an upgrade three or
> more times...so what? You pitched it, you never said it was mandatory just
> you couldn't tune the trans. Again a mistake, you should have known going
> in and you should have asked what tranny I had if that was so important.
> But then again you're only human and you make an occasional mistake....yeah
> right. I was clear about what I wanted from the very beginning and if I
> needed to do something else then it was you to inform me not. All I heard
> from you long after the process had begun was you couldn't tune the trans on
> my vehicle due to it having a 6 speed trans. Ok so you couldn't tune the
> trans. Show me anywhere in your material that requires a trans tune to
> complete the ECM mod. I'm not sure right now but I do believe your order
> form ask for vehicle information and if you require something other than
> what I was told then that's where the information concerning a 6 speed trans
> should be. You have attempted to paint a clear picture of what I did wrong
> and I hope you stick to that position. After all I'm only human. "You
> emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the morning of the 19th." I
> guess being human struck me again.....I apologize it was four days that time
> instead of five. To be honest when and how you replied was of no concern.
> I mistakenly considered you being very busy so how ever long it was going to
> take for you to reply was not an issue. I ncluded that only because I
> wanted to present a compete history of our communications. You continue to
> rattle on about how generous you were to reduce the cost from $330 to $275
> but that represents another mistake..you know for a human you sure do make a
> lot of mistakes. Here's what I think happened. You got busy, you forgot
> things, and then you maybe got just a little lazy and now you're attempting
> to cover your tail. If you had any integrity you would have owned your
> mistakes and not attempt to paint a pretty picture. Then again if you had
> any integrity you would have been clear concerning the cost in the first
> place. And again.....my issue is not with anything other than your telling
> me that I would need to send another $400 deposit that had never been
> discussed. I train business managers that if you don't present every detail
> to your customer on the front end it will appear that your trying to pull
> something. I don't make the rules I just follow them.
>
> Now to be quite honest both of us could have handled this in a far better
> way as to not end this with me thinking Black Bear is one of the most
> incompetent company's I have ever dealt with and you wouldn't have
> considered me such an ass. But that's how it goes in the big city. You
> screwed up and you know it but you have lied attempting to cover your tail I
> guess. I hate a liar and especially one that is attempting to fleece me.
> In closing regardless of your silly attempt to CYA and your reluctance to
> own your mistakes, even if you're human, I have zero desire to do any
> business with you. Yes I will continue down the charge back path and
> BTW...you seem to be threatening me by telling me that if I continue down
> that path you will have to send what you have to PayPal. You do that my
> friend.....I both hope and invite you to challenge me and the documentation
> I have. Your email attempts to talk around the issue of the additional $400
> deposit which was never mentioned before everything was done. As I said I
> have no desire to keep your equipment but at this point I have no trust in
> you to do the right thing so I'll just hold on to it until I have my money
> returned.
> Not that you would give a damn but I'm very disappointed that I will not
> realize what your tune might have done for my 6 speed Tahoe.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:54 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Don,
>
> The initial $400 is the deposit for the Scan Cable. You are correct that we
> then sent you a link to pay for the tuning service and at first it was the
> wrong dollar amount. We deal with numerous Scan Cable logs on a daily basis
> and we occasionally send out the wrong dollar amount. We are only human and
> for that we sincerley apologize. We updated the link for you and explained
> what the payment was for. It was not another deposit as you have mentioned.
> It was $275 for the tuning service and $140 for us to send a tuned ECM out
> to you (if you want to send your ECM in, that's perfectly okay and the link
> would have been reduced to just $275 for the tuning service). Once you
> returned the ECM you have now, the $140 would be refunded to you as well as
> the $400 for the scan cable once that is returned. In the end, you would
> have only paid $275 for the tuning service and would have been refunded $540
> for the ECM and Cable. This was also explained in our initial email back to
> you on 12/30/14. When describing the Scan Cable service, it is clearly
> outlined that there is a deposit for the cable and a separate fee for the
> tuning service. We also mentioned in that email that only the AutoCal would
> allow us to tune the engine and transmission. This is due to your year
> vehicle and having a 6 speed. This is also clearly stated in our FAQs. You
> responded to that email that you wanted to the Scan Cable Tune. In our
> response back to you on January 1st, we mention again that the Scan Cable
> Tune will only allow us to tune the engine and we decreased our Scan Cable
> price from $330 to $275 because of that. You chose to proceed with the Scan
> Cable option despite two notifications on our end that we can only tune the
> engine with that option. The inability to tune your transmission with the
> scan cable tune was clearly noted.
>
> On January 5th, you emailed us notifying us that you were having issues
> downloading the software. We let you know where to go to download the
> software. You sent three follow up emails and in the second one mentioned a
> refund (the only time mentioned). Before we had a chance to respond to
> that, you sent the third one again saying of the issues downloading the
> software, but you did not mention a refund again. We sent an email
> explaining that we have 4 different laptops and have no issues downloading
> the software and suggested using a different browser which seemed to work
> because you were able to successfully download the software and do the data
> logging. On January 14th, when we reviewed your first log, we mentioned a
> third time that only the AutoCal would enable us to tune both the engine and
> transmission. You chose once again to continue with the Scan Cable option.
>
> You mentioned that it takes five days to get back to you. In reviewing the
> email chain, the longest it has taken to get back to you is 2 business days.
> The instance of five days as you mentioned included two weekend days which
> we are not working. You emailed on Thursday the 15th and we responded the
> morning of the 19th.
>
> If you want to continue down this chargeback route, we will provide all
> correspondence to PayPal. We offered to have you return the equipment and
> we refund your deposit. The email chain clearly mentions the pricing for
> the Scan Cable, that you were notified on three separate occasions that the
> option you chose limited our tuning capabilities, and that you do in fact
> have our equipment which is contrary to your claim. Our hope is that you
> drop the claim, return our cable and we will be more than happy to refund
> your deposit. Our equipment is of more value than your deposit. We
> apologize that is has gotten to this point.
>
> Thanks,
> Jarrad
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> I have no desire to keep your equipment and as soon as I receive
> conformation that my money has been returned to my account I will return it.
> BTW....I had asked twice before if I could send the equipment back and we
> just forget about it. Both request were ignored. So maybe you should
> school me on how to handle this after two suggestions we just cut our losses
> and go our separate
> I'll tell you what's going on. You have made so many mistakes both
> concerning the process and the money required that I became concerned just
> what I was dealing with. I followed every instruction that I was given and
> the target kept moving. The original deposit went from $400 to $415 to $420
> and the straw was you asking for another $400 deposit on top of my already
> paid $400. NOWHERE have I read anything about an $800 deposit and never did
> you say anything about an $800 deposit. You sent the wrong link to place
> the order. The form I was asked to complete was for an entirely different
> vehicle so I had to complete another order, which was no problem. You
> supposedly perform this task every day yet you send me the wrong info
> concerning money, the process, and then I'm told you even sent me the link
> to the wrong vehicle. Shortly after I sent the log you informed me that I
> would have to send another $400 deposit.... for what I have no clue. That
> would be $800 of my money you would have and all I would have is a useless
> piece of equipment.....useless to me anyway. You have no idea how
> disappointed I am that this turned out this way but I couldn't understand
> how someone that performs this task on a Tahoe probably every day could make
> so many mistakes and then asking for another $400 raised a flag. I have all
> of our communications printed and brother if you read these in order I
> believe you could understand my concern. The bank sure did. My friends who
> were interested in this process since the beginning were very interested in
> the results but after reading our communications they are also very confused
> why you could make so many mistakes if in fact these were MISTAKES and
> nobody understands why you would require an $800 deposit. I place the order
> and submit what was first a $400 deposit. I received an email that you sent
> me the wrong link to place the order and I would have to follow a new link
> to place the order. This new form required a $415 deposit. THEN as I was
> looking for more information the original deposit of $400 had increased to
> $420. So all of that was done and I begin building a log. First one was
> bad so I sent another and was informed that it was perfect. Then I receive
> an email from you informing me that I would need to post yet another $400
> deposit for a reason that was not close to being clear. AND NOW I READ THAT
> YOUR PROCESS WILL NOT WORK ON A TAHOE WITH A 6 SPEED TRANS. Don't ya think
> this is a question that should be asked on the front end of the process. Or
> are you ignoring that little piece of information so you can tell me later
> that you are unable to complete the procedure on my vehicle. Before
> disputing the original $400 I asked a couple of friends to view the emails
> that I received and every person that read these emails just smiled and said
> good luck. Nobody can contact you and it takes days for you to reply to
> emails sent to you. If your so busy you can't talk to your customers on the
> phone and it takes sometimes up to 5 days to receive a reply just what the
> hell are you doing? If your that busy I have to assume you're dealing with
> the process many times a day and should be very familiar with such minor
> items as to how much deposit a specific order would require a good thing to
> ask would be if someone has a 6 speed trans which I've read your process
> will not be effective with this trans. I'm convinced a "tune" would be very
> effective and I will research other possibilities. I apologize for the rant
> and the attitude.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 1:33 AM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> What is going on Don? We just received a chargeback notification from
> PayPal. I haven't heard back from you since the reply yesterday. Did you
> receive that below? If you want to return the scan cable for a refund and
> cancel the process, that is fine. Initiating a chargeback without returning
> the equipment is not the way to go about that though.
> Hope to hear from you soon on this matter. That scan cable is important to
> our business.
> Justin
> On Jan 19, 2015 9:05 PM, "Black Bear Performance"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> That $400 is a security deposit and must be kept separate from the tune
> payment. Once the cable is returned to us, that deposit is refunded.
>
> I accidentally sent the wrong link earlier though, as it was for a 99-07
> classic vehicle which has a $100 PCM deposit. Your situation is different
> as we can only tune your ECM remotely with this method. The tune service is
> $275 instead of $330 and the ECM deposit is $140 instead of $100. This link
> is the correct link for your vehicle:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=l$l;t0&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> When all is said and done, your total will be $275 for the tune service.
> The $140 ECM deposit is refunded if you decide to return your OEM ECM and
> the $400 scan cable security deposit is refunded when you send that cable
> back.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> This is a PayPal record of my payment to Blackbear in the amount of $400.oo
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Monday, January 19, 2015 3:47 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Don, your log file here looks great. Please see this link here to
> proceed with the tune order:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=i6!d50&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> Justin, this is the second log I will have sent. I can make as many as you
> need to get it correct and provide you with the data you need.
>
> Don Miller
>
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2011
- Posts
- 50,348
- Reaction score
- 17,135
And there we have it 
Fifth Email Chain Part 2, January 21st - January 23rd - Start at the bottom. Continuation....
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
> I'm beginning to think that you're just plain nuts. So I started this whole
> debacle huh? By refusing step 4? And to think I would have had my refund
> by now if I had just laid down and done what YOU said. And you would have
> had your tool by now if you had either made some logical sense concerning
> your deposits or at least offered an explanation as to how you were going to
> refund $540 after I paid a $400 deposit but you didn't ask for another
> deposit did ya skippy? Anyone ever tell you that you're a control freak?
> I deal with people every day that accept zero responsibility for their
> actions so your no problem to deal with. Sorry but this idiocy began when
> I was asked for another $400 deposit that made no sense. Now I have asked a
> question that you seem to ignore. I paid a $400 deposit and you say that I
> would receive a $540 refund. Tell me genius exactly how does that work? 75
> Days is no problem for me to wait for my money....I'm sure my family will
> not miss a meal. Hey BTW...went to Ruth Chris Steak House last Saturday in
> Cherokee NC. Damn, the meal with tip was $193.00....so pal I don't see me
> missing that $400 as much as you miss your tool. Watched a Gregg Allman
> show at Harrah's Casino....Great show and as usual a great steak. How bout
> you skippy? Is that tool going to cause you to miss a meal? So you get
> back with me when your ready to refund my money and I would greatly
> appreciate it if you would just crawl back in that hole you live in and do
> not respond to me again. And get back with me after 75 days. Oh and if
> you see fit to offer an explanation for how you were going to refund $540
> behind a $400 deposit that would be nice also. Make sure you keep up with
> me on the various forums because I plan on posting the details of our little
> disagreement as often as I can. Hey I've already had three people message
> me to tell me of similar experiences they have had with you. One referred
> me to PCM which I have found to be much more user friendly than my
> experience with you. I sent an email and damn...it took 35 minutes to
> receive a reply....and you know what...they don't mind if you call them for
> explanations of their pricing and deposits. I truly believe that you're a
> stand up guy. Somewhat silly and zero ability to effectively communicate
> with people. I also know that your company has many satisfied customers and
> a decent reputation...as long as the customer bows down to the great Justin.
> But you blew it with me especially when you included your children in our
> conversation. That's something a truly sleazy person would do so that's how
> I come to the conclusion that you will do anything to get your way. I bet I
> really piss you off because I'm on top and you're not used to that are ya
> buddy? Now like some child you won't take any responsibility or even offer
> an explanation for why I was asked for an additional $400 deposit. It's
> always somebody else fault right? Now let me tell you something. I know
> that you think you're dealing with some wise ass who doesn't have a clue
> what he's doing. I also believe that I do know how to deal with a jerk like
> you. By your condescending attitude I suspect you underestimate many people
> and you probably get burned because of it. Oh I almost forgot...the wife
> picked up her 2015 Toyota Rav 4 Limited today. WOW...what a nice car.
> Barcelona Red with every button available. I don't suppose you offer a tune
> for a Rav 4 do ya? I know you will want to see photos so I'll post them as
> soon as I can. Yeah I'll post them along with the docs that will support
> everything I have said concerning our little disagreement. It would really
> be interesting to see the responses to your fuzzy math that provides a $540
> refund if you only pay $400. I can post the actual email that Jarrad sent
> concerning this alien math. Man 75 days of posting updates on me getting my
> money returned would really be a lot of fun. However, that would only hurt
> your employees and I have no desire to hurt anyone. Hell I don't even want
> to hurt your business but I'm not a person who just goes blindly into the
> night. Look clown all I have to do is send you registered mail demanding my
> money and give you ten days to respond or I will sell your equipment to
> recover money that I lost. Then if I didn't get my money I would sell your
> equipment and forget about you and that $400. Someone would get a real good
> deal on a scan tool because I can take the loss and sell the thing for
> whatever someone wants to pay for it. Hell I'll even advertise it on the
> Tahoe forums if that is what it would take. But skippy.... I have no desire
> to invest that kind of time in this silliness. I've already spent far too
> much time with you but to be honest I've had a great time. For some reason
> I have always enjoyed, a little too much, blowing egomaniacs like you up.
> Wow I had no idea that my reply to you was going to be this long but like I
> said...you're a blast to deal with.
>
> You have a blessed weekend and I'll see you in 75 days. And if you hear of
> anyone looking for a great deal on a scan tool you be sure to send them my
> way.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Friday, January 23, 2015 9:13 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Good evening sir.
>
> Just a friendly reminder of the information that was publicly posted
> regarding the questions you had about the process as well on
> tahoeyukonforum.com on January 3rd:
> http://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65378&page=5
>
> Post #42 by Jennabear, directly in response to your questions. Only the
> first three steps were ever completed, this whole debacle started when you
> refused step 4.
>
> On another note, had the scan cable been returned to us at the beginning of
> the week, you would have a refund now. As it sits, we are both in limbo for
> an extended period of time that could take up to 75 days according to
> PayPal.
>
> Have a joyful weekend
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> You just cannot help yourself can you? I do appreciate your reference to
> people that attempt to receive something for nothing. To me this only
> confirms your inability to comprehend what you read. This is the last time
> I will tell you this. I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH ANY MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE. THE
> MISTAKES I HAVE POINTED OUT WERE ONLY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT BLACK BEAR IS NOT
> BEYOND MAKING MISTAKES. I CAN SUPPORT THIS WITH THE DOCUMENTATION I HAVE.
> YOU SEEM TO WANT TO DWELL ON ME BEING UPSET OVER THESE SILLY MISTAKES SO
> EVIDENTLY YOU CAN PRESENT THIS AS A REASON FOR THIS FIASCO. How about you
> explaining the following explanation that makes it very clear that you asked
> for an additional security deposit of $400.
> "In the end, you would have only paid $275 for the tuning service and would
> have been refunded $540 for the ECM and Cable." Please explain how you can
> refund $540 when as you claim, you only asked for $400? I have made my case
> against you and I have no desire for anything free as you now seem to want
> to inject into our stupid little conflict. You are digging that hole deeper
> and deeper by insinuating that my efforts are based in some scam to get
> something for nothing. Just by injecting this silliness you demonstrate
> your inability to communicate using fact instead of conjecture. LET ME BE
> PERFECTLY CLEAR. I WOULDN'T SO BUSINESS WITH YOU IF YOU PAID ME LET ALONE
> ATTEMPTING TO GAIN YOUR PROCESS TO RECEIVE SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. Oh yeah,
> about those personal comments that you so graciously ignore, In lieu of your
> previous inability to comprehend what you read you will have to really try
> to understand this, read it twice if you have to, I am not saying you
> outright accused me of this but just the implication in lieu of the context
> of this silliness was not missed by myself. That my motivation is to receive
> something for nothing is offensive and does nothing to advance your
> position. My position has not change since the beginning...you give me my
> money and I will give you your equipment. Again for your pleasure, my
> position has been from the start that if you refund my money I will gladly
> return your equipment.I have in no way done anything that would even hint at
> wanting something for nothing. If I have please send it to me and I will
> offer a sincere apology. I have never nor will I ever play someone to gain
> something for nothing. That's a silly game for ignorant people. You
> evidently do not understand my position even after several attempts to make
> it clear that.... I get my money and you get your equipment. I truly do not
> trust you at this point and will NOT return this equipment until I get my
> money. Please let me know if you continue to have difficulty understanding
> my position. And let me tell you that even a mention of your children
> reflects on your inability to understand this issue. Why would you do that?
> Are you attempting to make me feel sorry by telling me the touching story
> about me keeping you from your children. That is as sleazy as those people
> who are attempting to get something for nothing. What if I told you my net
> worth is somewhere around 4.5 million dollars and have had a relationship
> with my bank for 25 years? Such a statement would not change anything just
> as your comment concerning me keeping your children up late so you can do
> whatever it was that I was keeping you from. What would that bring to the
> table....nothing but an ignorant attempt to demonstrate how little I need to
> beat you out of anything. In closing may I suggest you hire someone to
> comunicate with your customers that find themselves in this position to deal
> with issues like this because you've not exactly done a bang up job of it.
> And don't give me that line about you making 9500 people happy. After
> positing my experience with you on a message board I received three replies
> from people who have had similar experiences with you and have offered to
> send me the transcripts of their communications with you. The ball stays in
> your court as I feel I have made it very clear the path to a conclusion to
> this silliness. Now either get on with your attempt to get my money after
> me disputing your charge or send me my money so I can be done with this
> ignorance. I also have plenty to do besides just playing tag with you.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:51 AM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Please show me explicitly where I have asked you for another deposit or
> anything outside of what we've outlined? I am happy to refund your money
> when I receive my equipment back. The scan cable you are holding retails
> for $499, our $400 security deposit is just that, a security deposit, as
> stated from the beginning in our very first correspondence with you.
>
> "Scan Cable Tune - With the security deposit, we send out a data logger, to
> be used with a Windows based Laptop to collect data. Then, using that data
> and an order form that you complete, we complete and ship the set of
> computers out to you to be installed.
> Tune service: $330
> Scan cable security deposit: $400"
>
>
> This email chain has our entire history of request for payment for the tune
> service after the log file was provided as well and contains only these two
> emails:
>
> On Monday, January 19, 2015 3:47 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Don, your log file here looks great. Please see this link here to
> proceed with the tune order:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=i6!d50&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> Justin
>
> On Jan 19, 2015 9:05 PM, "Black Bear Performance"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> That $400 is a security deposit and must be kept separate from the tune
> payment. Once the cable is returned to us, that deposit is refunded.
>
> I accidentally sent the wrong link earlier though, as it was for a 99-07
> classic vehicle which has a $100 PCM deposit. Your situation is different
> as we can only tune your ECM remotely with this method. The tune service is
> $275 instead of $330 and the ECM deposit is $140 instead of $100. This link
> is the correct link for your vehicle:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=l$l;t0&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> When all is said and done, your total will be $275 for the tune service.
> The $140 ECM deposit is refunded if you decide to return your OEM ECM and
> the $400 scan cable security deposit is refunded when you send that cable
> back.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> This is a PayPal record of my payment to Blackbear in the amount of $400.oo
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> Yes, you paid $400 for the security deposit. That was not and is not ever
> in question. Once your data was deemed to be acceptable (hence the need for
> a second log file), we sent the link for you to pay for the tune service
> itself as well as a core charge on an ECM for your truck. This was all
> explained on that second email directly above this paragraph. We split the
> payment in two because often people sit on the scan cable for weeks or even
> months or years. We do not want to have funds on hold for that long of a
> period of time without completing the service. Doesn't serve us nor does it
> serve the customer. Hence the second payment request to complete the
> process. I dealt with a log file from an individual yesterday that
> submitted his scan cable deposit in October as an example.
>
> Did you click the pay now link in either of those emails I provided to see
> just how it is broken out? It would have alleviated a lot of confusion as
> it is listed as such:
>
> Scan Cable Tune Service, ECM OnlyScan Cable Tune Service, ECM Only$275.00
> Item price: $275.00
> Quantity: 1
>
> 05+ Gen-IV ECM05+ Gen-IV ECM$140.00
> Item price: $140.00
> Quantity: 1
>
> Item total
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PayPal contacted me about a chargeback, I emailed you to see what the
> misunderstanding was to give the benefit of the doubt. There is no doubt
> and we have provided PayPal with the information that they requested. If
> you find that that is a threat, so be it, but I do not see it as any more of
> a threat than answering a request for information. Chargebacks are
> frequently used by individuals to extort free or discounted service from a
> business and as such we have to take a serious approach towards it,
> regardless of whom is on the other end.
>
> I really hope that that is not the case and we're just speaking two
> different languages here, so I will give that the benefit of the doubt and
> again ignore the personal remarks. We've been forthcoming and open this
> entire process, so I don't know what more to say. We've been operating this
> business for many years now with thousands of customers and have never had
> anything remotely like this come up. I was hopeful that my last email would
> have set a better tone, but that appears not to be the case.
>
> Regards
> Justin
>
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
> I'm beginning to think that you're just plain nuts. So I started this whole
> debacle huh? By refusing step 4? And to think I would have had my refund
> by now if I had just laid down and done what YOU said. And you would have
> had your tool by now if you had either made some logical sense concerning
> your deposits or at least offered an explanation as to how you were going to
> refund $540 after I paid a $400 deposit but you didn't ask for another
> deposit did ya skippy? Anyone ever tell you that you're a control freak?
> I deal with people every day that accept zero responsibility for their
> actions so your no problem to deal with. Sorry but this idiocy began when
> I was asked for another $400 deposit that made no sense. Now I have asked a
> question that you seem to ignore. I paid a $400 deposit and you say that I
> would receive a $540 refund. Tell me genius exactly how does that work? 75
> Days is no problem for me to wait for my money....I'm sure my family will
> not miss a meal. Hey BTW...went to Ruth Chris Steak House last Saturday in
> Cherokee NC. Damn, the meal with tip was $193.00....so pal I don't see me
> missing that $400 as much as you miss your tool. Watched a Gregg Allman
> show at Harrah's Casino....Great show and as usual a great steak. How bout
> you skippy? Is that tool going to cause you to miss a meal? So you get
> back with me when your ready to refund my money and I would greatly
> appreciate it if you would just crawl back in that hole you live in and do
> not respond to me again. And get back with me after 75 days. Oh and if
> you see fit to offer an explanation for how you were going to refund $540
> behind a $400 deposit that would be nice also. Make sure you keep up with
> me on the various forums because I plan on posting the details of our little
> disagreement as often as I can. Hey I've already had three people message
> me to tell me of similar experiences they have had with you. One referred
> me to PCM which I have found to be much more user friendly than my
> experience with you. I sent an email and damn...it took 35 minutes to
> receive a reply....and you know what...they don't mind if you call them for
> explanations of their pricing and deposits. I truly believe that you're a
> stand up guy. Somewhat silly and zero ability to effectively communicate
> with people. I also know that your company has many satisfied customers and
> a decent reputation...as long as the customer bows down to the great Justin.
> But you blew it with me especially when you included your children in our
> conversation. That's something a truly sleazy person would do so that's how
> I come to the conclusion that you will do anything to get your way. I bet I
> really piss you off because I'm on top and you're not used to that are ya
> buddy? Now like some child you won't take any responsibility or even offer
> an explanation for why I was asked for an additional $400 deposit. It's
> always somebody else fault right? Now let me tell you something. I know
> that you think you're dealing with some wise ass who doesn't have a clue
> what he's doing. I also believe that I do know how to deal with a jerk like
> you. By your condescending attitude I suspect you underestimate many people
> and you probably get burned because of it. Oh I almost forgot...the wife
> picked up her 2015 Toyota Rav 4 Limited today. WOW...what a nice car.
> Barcelona Red with every button available. I don't suppose you offer a tune
> for a Rav 4 do ya? I know you will want to see photos so I'll post them as
> soon as I can. Yeah I'll post them along with the docs that will support
> everything I have said concerning our little disagreement. It would really
> be interesting to see the responses to your fuzzy math that provides a $540
> refund if you only pay $400. I can post the actual email that Jarrad sent
> concerning this alien math. Man 75 days of posting updates on me getting my
> money returned would really be a lot of fun. However, that would only hurt
> your employees and I have no desire to hurt anyone. Hell I don't even want
> to hurt your business but I'm not a person who just goes blindly into the
> night. Look clown all I have to do is send you registered mail demanding my
> money and give you ten days to respond or I will sell your equipment to
> recover money that I lost. Then if I didn't get my money I would sell your
> equipment and forget about you and that $400. Someone would get a real good
> deal on a scan tool because I can take the loss and sell the thing for
> whatever someone wants to pay for it. Hell I'll even advertise it on the
> Tahoe forums if that is what it would take. But skippy.... I have no desire
> to invest that kind of time in this silliness. I've already spent far too
> much time with you but to be honest I've had a great time. For some reason
> I have always enjoyed, a little too much, blowing egomaniacs like you up.
> Wow I had no idea that my reply to you was going to be this long but like I
> said...you're a blast to deal with.
>
> You have a blessed weekend and I'll see you in 75 days. And if you hear of
> anyone looking for a great deal on a scan tool you be sure to send them my
> way.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Friday, January 23, 2015 9:13 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Good evening sir.
>
> Just a friendly reminder of the information that was publicly posted
> regarding the questions you had about the process as well on
> tahoeyukonforum.com on January 3rd:
> http://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65378&page=5
>
> Post #42 by Jennabear, directly in response to your questions. Only the
> first three steps were ever completed, this whole debacle started when you
> refused step 4.
>
> On another note, had the scan cable been returned to us at the beginning of
> the week, you would have a refund now. As it sits, we are both in limbo for
> an extended period of time that could take up to 75 days according to
> PayPal.
>
> Have a joyful weekend
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> You just cannot help yourself can you? I do appreciate your reference to
> people that attempt to receive something for nothing. To me this only
> confirms your inability to comprehend what you read. This is the last time
> I will tell you this. I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH ANY MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE. THE
> MISTAKES I HAVE POINTED OUT WERE ONLY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT BLACK BEAR IS NOT
> BEYOND MAKING MISTAKES. I CAN SUPPORT THIS WITH THE DOCUMENTATION I HAVE.
> YOU SEEM TO WANT TO DWELL ON ME BEING UPSET OVER THESE SILLY MISTAKES SO
> EVIDENTLY YOU CAN PRESENT THIS AS A REASON FOR THIS FIASCO. How about you
> explaining the following explanation that makes it very clear that you asked
> for an additional security deposit of $400.
> "In the end, you would have only paid $275 for the tuning service and would
> have been refunded $540 for the ECM and Cable." Please explain how you can
> refund $540 when as you claim, you only asked for $400? I have made my case
> against you and I have no desire for anything free as you now seem to want
> to inject into our stupid little conflict. You are digging that hole deeper
> and deeper by insinuating that my efforts are based in some scam to get
> something for nothing. Just by injecting this silliness you demonstrate
> your inability to communicate using fact instead of conjecture. LET ME BE
> PERFECTLY CLEAR. I WOULDN'T SO BUSINESS WITH YOU IF YOU PAID ME LET ALONE
> ATTEMPTING TO GAIN YOUR PROCESS TO RECEIVE SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. Oh yeah,
> about those personal comments that you so graciously ignore, In lieu of your
> previous inability to comprehend what you read you will have to really try
> to understand this, read it twice if you have to, I am not saying you
> outright accused me of this but just the implication in lieu of the context
> of this silliness was not missed by myself. That my motivation is to receive
> something for nothing is offensive and does nothing to advance your
> position. My position has not change since the beginning...you give me my
> money and I will give you your equipment. Again for your pleasure, my
> position has been from the start that if you refund my money I will gladly
> return your equipment.I have in no way done anything that would even hint at
> wanting something for nothing. If I have please send it to me and I will
> offer a sincere apology. I have never nor will I ever play someone to gain
> something for nothing. That's a silly game for ignorant people. You
> evidently do not understand my position even after several attempts to make
> it clear that.... I get my money and you get your equipment. I truly do not
> trust you at this point and will NOT return this equipment until I get my
> money. Please let me know if you continue to have difficulty understanding
> my position. And let me tell you that even a mention of your children
> reflects on your inability to understand this issue. Why would you do that?
> Are you attempting to make me feel sorry by telling me the touching story
> about me keeping you from your children. That is as sleazy as those people
> who are attempting to get something for nothing. What if I told you my net
> worth is somewhere around 4.5 million dollars and have had a relationship
> with my bank for 25 years? Such a statement would not change anything just
> as your comment concerning me keeping your children up late so you can do
> whatever it was that I was keeping you from. What would that bring to the
> table....nothing but an ignorant attempt to demonstrate how little I need to
> beat you out of anything. In closing may I suggest you hire someone to
> comunicate with your customers that find themselves in this position to deal
> with issues like this because you've not exactly done a bang up job of it.
> And don't give me that line about you making 9500 people happy. After
> positing my experience with you on a message board I received three replies
> from people who have had similar experiences with you and have offered to
> send me the transcripts of their communications with you. The ball stays in
> your court as I feel I have made it very clear the path to a conclusion to
> this silliness. Now either get on with your attempt to get my money after
> me disputing your charge or send me my money so I can be done with this
> ignorance. I also have plenty to do besides just playing tag with you.
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> On Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:51 AM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Please show me explicitly where I have asked you for another deposit or
> anything outside of what we've outlined? I am happy to refund your money
> when I receive my equipment back. The scan cable you are holding retails
> for $499, our $400 security deposit is just that, a security deposit, as
> stated from the beginning in our very first correspondence with you.
>
> "Scan Cable Tune - With the security deposit, we send out a data logger, to
> be used with a Windows based Laptop to collect data. Then, using that data
> and an order form that you complete, we complete and ship the set of
> computers out to you to be installed.
> Tune service: $330
> Scan cable security deposit: $400"
>
>
> This email chain has our entire history of request for payment for the tune
> service after the log file was provided as well and contains only these two
> emails:
>
> On Monday, January 19, 2015 3:47 PM, Black Bear Performance
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Don, your log file here looks great. Please see this link here to
> proceed with the tune order:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=i6!d50&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> Justin
>
> On Jan 19, 2015 9:05 PM, "Black Bear Performance"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> That $400 is a security deposit and must be kept separate from the tune
> payment. Once the cable is returned to us, that deposit is refunded.
>
> I accidentally sent the wrong link earlier though, as it was for a 99-07
> classic vehicle which has a $100 PCM deposit. Your situation is different
> as we can only tune your ECM remotely with this method. The tune service is
> $275 instead of $330 and the ECM deposit is $140 instead of $100. This link
> is the correct link for your vehicle:
> http://www.blackbearperformance.com/purchase.asp?t=l$l;t0&x=0&q=00&rp=0
>
> When all is said and done, your total will be $275 for the tune service.
> The $140 ECM deposit is refunded if you decide to return your OEM ECM and
> the $400 scan cable security deposit is refunded when you send that cable
> back.
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Don Miller <> wrote:
>
> This is a PayPal record of my payment to Blackbear in the amount of $400.oo
>
> Don Miller
>
>
> Yes, you paid $400 for the security deposit. That was not and is not ever
> in question. Once your data was deemed to be acceptable (hence the need for
> a second log file), we sent the link for you to pay for the tune service
> itself as well as a core charge on an ECM for your truck. This was all
> explained on that second email directly above this paragraph. We split the
> payment in two because often people sit on the scan cable for weeks or even
> months or years. We do not want to have funds on hold for that long of a
> period of time without completing the service. Doesn't serve us nor does it
> serve the customer. Hence the second payment request to complete the
> process. I dealt with a log file from an individual yesterday that
> submitted his scan cable deposit in October as an example.
>
> Did you click the pay now link in either of those emails I provided to see
> just how it is broken out? It would have alleviated a lot of confusion as
> it is listed as such:
>
> Scan Cable Tune Service, ECM OnlyScan Cable Tune Service, ECM Only$275.00
> Item price: $275.00
> Quantity: 1
>
> 05+ Gen-IV ECM05+ Gen-IV ECM$140.00
> Item price: $140.00
> Quantity: 1
>
> Item total
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PayPal contacted me about a chargeback, I emailed you to see what the
> misunderstanding was to give the benefit of the doubt. There is no doubt
> and we have provided PayPal with the information that they requested. If
> you find that that is a threat, so be it, but I do not see it as any more of
> a threat than answering a request for information. Chargebacks are
> frequently used by individuals to extort free or discounted service from a
> business and as such we have to take a serious approach towards it,
> regardless of whom is on the other end.
>
> I really hope that that is not the case and we're just speaking two
> different languages here, so I will give that the benefit of the doubt and
> again ignore the personal remarks. We've been forthcoming and open this
> entire process, so I don't know what more to say. We've been operating this
> business for many years now with thousands of customers and have never had
> anything remotely like this come up. I was hopeful that my last email would
> have set a better tone, but that appears not to be the case.
>
> Regards
> Justin
>
It all goes down hill after your claim that I told the card company that BB gave me nothing for the $400 deposit. I not only provided all information to the bank I also visited them with the transcripts of the exchange that clearly spells oout the mistrakes that were made by BB. Again...it was those mistakes that have lead to this not any misunderstanding on my part. Lets just forget this and I'll wait the 75 days for my money. The issue has been from the start refunding my $400 deposit nothing more than that. I noticed you edited several replies from BB. Why doesn't that suirprise me. I'm completely through with this and with BB. Do not contact me again and I will not reply to any of the BB post until you are ready to refund my money......period.
Wow. Now that's an email chain. Good luck blackbear! Hope you guys get your money or tool back, keep up the great work you guys do!
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Sasquatch
Full Access Member
It`s all there in black and white explaining the prices and how they add up and what will be refunded.
It`s very easy to understand. What i don`t understand is what this And i`ll be nice by calling him a gentleman doesn`t get?
Blackbear has a stellar reputation, If you don`t like their way of doing business just send the equipment back and get your refund.
I feel bad for the next business that has to deal with this guy.
It`s very easy to understand. What i don`t understand is what this And i`ll be nice by calling him a gentleman doesn`t get?
Blackbear has a stellar reputation, If you don`t like their way of doing business just send the equipment back and get your refund.
I feel bad for the next business that has to deal with this guy.
Nor will I' read all the stuff above. But, I got an email from Justin on Friday night around 10PM, thats not normal business behavior. I'm new to the GMC stuff but been dealing with Forums and car mods for 13 years on my 95 T-Bird. That said, only there I encountered this type of behave, from vendors that are true enthusiasts and don't care about time so much, rather than helping out fellow members of the same interest. Course it's a business, but it's also the middle of the night.
I hope for the OP to get this worked out and gets to enjoy his tune from a good source, as many others do. Given that BB is willing to still deal with Him. Time to Man-Up and don't be a grumpy SOB for years to come.
Sad to see this useless discussion in first place.
note: Im very exited and looking forward to my Tune .
I hope for the OP to get this worked out and gets to enjoy his tune from a good source, as many others do. Given that BB is willing to still deal with Him. Time to Man-Up and don't be a grumpy SOB for years to come.
Sad to see this useless discussion in first place.
note: Im very exited and looking forward to my Tune .
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