To level or not?

[Brandon2489]

1" spacer that raises the front end 2".

I'm not familiar with leveling kits. A 1" spacer gives you a raise of 2"?

 

[Charlie207]

I'm not familiar with leveling kits. A 1" spacer gives you a raise of 2"?

Easy to understand:

Your lower control arm is attached on one end to the frame (fixed, but allows movement), and the steering knuckle/hub is attached at the other end of the lower control arm.

The spacer is placed below where the strut assembly mounts to the lower control arm.

If the strut was mounted at the steering knuckle, a 1" spacer would move the lower control arm down 1", as it's at the end of the "lever"; this is a 1:1 ratio.

If the strut is mounted halfway between the frame and knuckle/hub, then the 1" spacer will move the end of the lever down 2"; a 2:1 ratio.

Here's a picture of a random lower control arm, for instructional purposes. See the two mounting holes roughly in the middle? That's where the strut attaches to, so if you add length to the strut, it will push down on the lower control arm, giving you a lift.

 

[Brandon2489]

Easy to understand:

Your lower control arm is attached on one end to the frame (fixed, but allows movement), and the steering knuckle/hub is attached at the other end of the lower control arm.

The spacer is placed below where the strut assembly mounts to the lower control arm.

If the strut was mounted at the steering knuckle, a 1" spacer would move the lower control arm down 1", as it's at the end of the "lever"; this is a 1:1 ratio.

If the strut is mounted halfway between the frame and knuckle/hub, then the 1" spacer will move the end of the lever down 2"; a 2:1 ratio.

Here's a picture of a random lower control arm, for instructional purposes. See the two mounting holes roughly in the middle? That's where the strut attaches to, so if you add length to the strut, it will push down on the lower control arm, giving you a lift.

View attachment 346787

Gotcha. Makes since. Thanks for the lesson.

 

[swathdiver]

The thing is that the Michelin Defender and BFG KO2 are two very different tires.

The Michelins are top-tier all-season truck/SUV tires, and will be 1000x better on the road. They did OK in the winter - actual snow and ice - but I would never compare them to dedicated snow tires. The different tread patterns and rubber compounds make a tremendous difference, but you'll see that they have lots of siping..... very good in snow/ice.

The KO2s are off-road tires that can be driven on pavement, at least that's how I see them. They are loud, heavy, and expensive. I hear people say they are good in the winter, but I doubt those people have had to actually live with them in sub-zero, icey/snowy conditions for months on end. They have no siping on the tread blocks, and my guess is that the compound hardens up to hockey-puck consistency when the temps get low.

I mean... a picture is worth a thousand words, so here's 2,000 words:

View attachment 346774

vs.

View attachment 346775

The KO2s are snow rated, they have that logo on them and if you look at the Tire Rack reviews, they are a better snow tire than the Michelins. Plenty of guys on here run them year round because they are so good in the snow.

When mine were new we barreled right into a tropical downpour at 80 mph with 2 inches of water standing on the highway and the truck didn't even budge an inch. This jives with the old BFG Radial T/As that were on my 1980s Buicks. The reason being, those c-channel tread blocks on the edge of the tires do an excellent job of moving water and BFG incorporated that feature from the Radial T/A to the KO2. As soon as I saw those c-channels, I knew they were the right tire for us.

Cost wise, It's a wash. The KO2 E is two dollars more than the Defender E and there's a $20 difference between the P-Metric Defender and KO2 C.

I'm sure that the Defender will deliver a nicer ride and be more quiet, however, the KO2s are not noisy until they get old. They are probably more noisy than the Defender but with the radio and AC going, I'll never know. I reckon that the Defenders would be more fuel efficient and can last at least twice as long mileage wise.

When we get the Denali, it's going to get shod with Defenders. The Sierra has Nitto Trail Grapplers, a different animal entirely but they seem to last longer than KO2s! We'll see how they hold up in Florida weather.

 

[Charlie207]

The KO2s are snow rated, they have that logo on them and if you look at the Tire Rack reviews, they are a better snow tire than the Michelins. Plenty of guys on here run them year round because they are so good in the snow.

I get into this discussion all the time. That little "Snow Rated" logo is basically just saying that it meets the minimum threshold to be run in the winter, not that it's great in freezing/snow/icey conditions. In practical terms it doesn't mean much; e.g. my General Grabber AT2s had the same logo, and those tires were junk when the temps dropped close to freezing.... literal hockey pucks.

There's a good reason why dedicated winter/snow tire rubber compounds are formulated differently, as well as the tread patterns being much different.

Water evacuation doesn't equal snow evacuation, especially when one is frozen. Most people/places don't deal with ice, and don't understand how it effects traction... it's not like hydroplaning.

I've driven the Michelins in very-wintery conditions for extended periods of time, and they do fine... not great, but fine.

Where I live it's cold and miserable half the year, and it's worth it to have a dedicated set of winter tires with lots of tread sipes and rubber that stays soft/grippy when it's 0*, and below, outside.

/thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[swathdiver]

I get into this discussion all the time. That little "Snow Rated" logo is basically just saying that it meets the minimum threshold to be run in the winter, not that it's great in freezing/snow/icey conditions. In practical terms it doesn't mean much; e.g. my General Grabber AT2s had the same logo, and those tires were junk when the temps dropped close to freezing.... literal hockey pucks.

There's a good reason why dedicated winter/snow tire rubber compounds are formulated differently, as well as the tread patterns being much different.

Water evacuation doesn't equal snow evacuation, especially when one is frozen. Most people/places don't deal with ice, and don't understand how it effects traction... it's not like hydroplaning.

I've driven the Michelins in very-wintery conditions for extended periods of time, and they do fine... not great, but fine.

Where I live it's cold and miserable half the year, and it's worth it to have a dedicated set of winter tires with lots of tread sipes and rubber that stays soft/grippy when it's 0*, and below, outside.

/thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I agree that snow and water are different and it was not my intent to conflate the two. In addition to mentioning the 3-peak severe service rating for snow I mentioned that there are quite a few folks on here that run them year around up north so that they do not need a dedicated snow tire, they are that good in the snow. There are a couple of guys in Alaska on here that have said as much. The reviewers on Tire Rack seem to prefer them in snow over the Defender as well.

I'm not sure if or why you are alluding to the KO2s lack of siping. As I look at the treads, they have siping everywhere and compared to many competitors, it goes all the way down to the wear bars.

 

[Charlie207]

I agree that snow and water are different and it was not my intent to conflate the two. In addition to mentioning the 3-peak severe service rating for snow I mentioned that there are quite a few folks on here that run them year around up north so that they do not need a dedicated snow tire, they are that good in the snow. There are a couple of guys in Alaska on here that have said as much. The reviewers on Tire Rack seem to prefer them in snow over the Defender as well.

I'm not sure if or why you are alluding to the KO2s lack of siping. As I look at the treads, they have siping everywhere and compared to many competitors, it goes all the way down to the wear bars.

When I refer to the sipes, I don't mean the gaps between the tread blocks. I'm referring to the small cuts in the tread blocks that go all the way down. See all the small lines:



Those act like the toes of gekkos, and to a limited extent your fingerprint lines, to increase traction (gekko feet are a bit more complex, but it stands):

The KO2s have limited siping, and I don't think they go all the way down... look at all that smooth tread-block surface:


KO2s are great tires, but they wouldn't even be close to my 1st choice for a winter tire.

If I had to choose one single A/T tire for a northern climate (snow/ice & hot summers) I'd go with something like these Nokian Rotiivas:

 

[swathdiver]

When I refer to the sipes, I don't mean the gaps between the tread blocks. I'm referring to the small cuts in the tread blocks that go all the way down. See all the small lines:

View attachment 346800

Those act like the toes of gekkos, and to a limited extent your fingerprint lines, to increase traction (gekko feet are a bit more complex, but it stands):

The KO2s have limited siping, and I don't think they go all the way down... look at all that smooth tread-block surface:
View attachment 346801

KO2s are great tires, but they wouldn't even be close to my 1st choice for a winter tire.

If I had to choose one single A/T tire for a northern climate (snow/ice & hot summers) I'd go with something like these Nokian Rotiivas:
View attachment 346802

Yeah, I know what sipes are and both tires have lots of them. Never heard of those, oh, they're Finnish tires!

They may indeed be better in the snow, don't know, could not find a direct comparison. My point was, the KO2s can be driven year round without needing a winter set, even in Saskatchewan or Alaskan winters. To each his own.

 

[bobsburban]

Here's my 2011 Suburban with Moog 1250 lb rear springs (Z71 spec?) and Bilstein 5100s all around. Since the new rear springs raised the back between 1.5 and 2 inches, I set the front springs on the second lowest perch on the shocks (5100 front shocks have three or four perches for this type of adjustment) to get things reasonably level. Air-Lift 1000 bags are now in the rear as well to support the towing activities. Though you may not be in the market for new shocks - it is another solution. Tires are 275-65/18 General Grabber A/TX. Specs say they are 32.1" in diameter. They rub just a touch at full lock when new - not enough for me to trim any plastic.

 

[Shunto]

So I'm trying to decide if I should do a level on my 2011 Tahoe LT. I'm thinking of either a 2.5 inch lift in front with a 1 inch lift in rear or just a 1.5 or 2.0 inch lift in front. Question is will it look silly with 18 inch wheels running 265/65r18 Michelin Defender tires? I don't want it to look to tall with too small of a tire. What are your all's thoughts? Here is a pic for reference. I'm also thinking of putting z71 fender flares on. Not 100 percent on that though.

Watching this...
Love this vintage Tahoe.. Ain't as fancy as all the later models but i still look 2x's when i see one of these that someone took care of. I saw a Maroon LTZ Just today that took my breath away..Tastefully upgraded and Clean as can be.