2012 Yukon Denali - 6.2 lifter or something else? [Advice/How to Proceed]

[BlackBearPerf]

Thanks for clarifying. I get it - you rely on this vehicle, don't yet know what you're up against, and without more certainty you don't want to make things worse.

Yes, I think you have received a warning from the AFM system that it's time to take some sort of action (sure would appreciate a copy of that video to be certain - happy to PM you my mobile # if you don't want to upload to YouTube). But at any rate, here would be my courses of action if I were in your shoes. (Understanding also that I have done a mechanical AFM delete on my 2012 XL Denali in my garage so I know first-hand what that entails).

1/ Electronically disabling the AFM system - either through a tune or with a Range device will make your valvetrain as reliable as a regular non-AFM valvetrain. I would prefer a tune for this to make the change permanent. There are a few ways to go for this; a) a tune from @BlackBearPerf will do many things, including wake up the performance of your engine and transmission without sacrificing reliability or durability for about $700. Or b) send your ECM out to a guy that @iamdub knows about and have AFM turned off for about $50. Or c) Buy a tuner like Diablo Sport or HP Tuners and learn to do it all yourself.

2/ Mechanically deleting the AFM system - this will cost anywhere from $2500 - $5000 depending on how deep you go, but you can get a bigger cam to boost performance if you wish or stay with a factory cam profile but either way the cam will have to come out. New lifters, valve stem seals, etc etc.

Personally, if I had this to do all over again, I would just disable the AFM system with a Black Bear Tune and party on. But if you're looking for self-torture and feel like tackling this yourself, here is my story to help guide you:

2012 Yukon XL Denali 6.2L Cam Swap Thread

I love that Cam Motion measures each cam after grinding and finishing. Here's the cam card. Blub blub blub...

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

This is good information, and we would be happy to help with a tune.

 

[Pointer 21]

100% stuck lifter but doesn't sound to my ear like it's eating the cam yet.

Based on our terrific text exchange it looks like your priority is for it to remain a reliable daily driver and you will pay someone else to do the work. With that, I see three options:

1/ Cheapest: try the Crazed Performance lifter trick and see if you can get the lifter unstuck. If you can, immediately have the AFM tuned out with a $50 mail-your-ECM tune, and drive it like you stole it until the wheels fall off. Probably $150 for the tool and the tune, plus your time. If you can find a shop to try the Crazed Performance trick for you, all the better. Probably $500 in labor to give it a try.

2/ Next cheapest: Have a shop identify which lifter failed and replace it along with the lifter trays on that bank. Requires pulling one cylinder head. Probably $1500 in parts and labor.

3/ Fancy: Have a shop install a DoD delete kit from Texas Speed or do like I did and roll your own from the parts you want. This will include a new cam (mild or wild, your choice) and timing set, new lifters and springs, new flat valley pan, new OEM lifter trays and some other doo dads. Probably $3500-$5000 in parts and labor. I would still prefer a Blackbear tune over a local shop, though. Justin knows his shit.

What would I do? Pack a couple of lunches and a cooler of beer, then spend the weekend doing option 3. If I was long on cash and short on time, I would pay a performance shop to do option 3 to my specs.

For a Hail Mary, you can run some marvel mystery oil in there for a few hundred miles. @Trey Hardy fixed his stuck lifter that way a couple of times now.

You hit the nail on the head - my trust worthy mechanic (NOT A PERFORMANCE SHOP) just texted me and said it would likely be a $1000-$1500 fix. I haven't verbally spoken to him (it was his wife texting) so I'm not sure of his exact process - It'll likely be what you'd expect from a good mom/pop shop so option #2.

Any other input on "maintenance items" at 165k miles? I was thinking 02 sensors? oh yeah - the transfer case will have to be removed to address the oil leak on the passenger side as well.....JUST $$$$$. GRRRRRR

 

[Pointer 21]

You hit the nail on the head - my trust worthy mechanic (NOT A PERFORMANCE SHOP) just texted me and said it would likely be a $1000-$1500 fix. I haven't verbally spoken to him (it was his wife texting) so I'm not sure of his exact process - It'll likely be what you'd expect from a good mom/pop shop so option #2.

Any other input on "maintenance items" at 165k miles? I was thinking 02 sensors? oh yeah - the transfer case will have to be removed to address the oil leak on the passenger side as well.....JUST $$$$$. GRRRRRR

@Geotrash @swathdiver - I appreciate the heck out of ya'll. I want to mirror Dave's approach of turning this 6.2 into a racecar but in all honesty I'm still concerned there may be underlying issues that I've either neglected over the years or hell I flat out don't understand....Prolly time to get a Tech 2

At about 60K miles my acceleration/power/mpgs went down and the cats started having a funky sound.....I've never gotten over 13 mpgs with OEM 22's (all stock, 93 fuel, synthetic oil every 5k). Looking back the cost of ownership on this thing has been expensive....

Suspension - ALL OEM (Thanks @swathdiver for the help here)
Transmission - Replaced (Still nervous that it wasn't rebuilt properly)
For fun - recently 2.5 level, 1.5 R, 33 tires (TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE)

To keep it simple, reliable, extra pep or just how it came stock (bonus if I can get MPG's) what's my best course of action? Tune, AFM delete, and exhaust mod/delete (not clear here)?

I appreciate the input - I'm trying to instruct my mechanic on what I want him to do and will be having it towed in the AM....

 

[iamdub]

The cheap AFM disable "tune' Dave was referencing is at https://lt1swap.com/afm_delete.htm. You mail them your PCM (at your cost- maybe $10?) and they'll disable AFM in the tune and mail the PCM back to you for $50. If you're gonna do an AFM delete, you'll need it disabled in the tune, anyway. This would be the cheapest way to JUST turn off AFM if you wanted to remain stock otherwise.

I'll echo Dave's recommendation on having a full tune done if it's in the cards for you. In stock form, these things have plenty to clean up in the tune. It's not so much as a lot of power production left on the table as it is efficiently getting the power it already makes to the ground. This vastly improves the drivability but reducing the confusion in shifts really helps the transmission. It's a win-win. As Dave and others have said, Black Bear Performance have proven time after time that they know what they're doing with these things.

 

[Pointer 21]

The cheap AFM disable "tune' Dave was referencing is at https://lt1swap.com/afm_delete.htm. You mail them your PCM (at your cost- maybe $10?) and they'll disable AFM in the tune and mail the PCM back to you for $50. If you're gonna do an AFM delete, you'll need it disabled in the tune, anyway. This would be the cheapest way to JUST turn off AFM if you wanted to remain stock otherwise.

I'll echo Dave's recommendation on having a full tune done if it's in the cards for you. In stock form, these things have plenty to clean up in the tune. It's not so much as a lot of power production left on the table as it is efficiently getting the power it already makes to the ground. This vastly improves the drivability but reducing the confusion in shifts really helps the transmission. It's a win-win. As Dave and others have said, Black Bear Performance have proven time after time that they know what they're doing with these things.

Appreciate the feedback and excuse my ignorance here. Is the process to have the lifter unstuck and then delete the AFM system? Therefore I wouldn’t need extra parts and I would keep rolling?

I’m thinking that a @BlackBearPerf will be purchased; however, I want to make sure the vehicle is performing optimally before tuning.

I’d assume I’ll have a few days down while I wait for the tune or delete?

 

[Geotrash]

Appreciate the feedback and excuse my ignorance here. Is the process to have the lifter unstuck and then delete the AFM system? Therefore I wouldn’t need extra parts and I would keep rolling?

I’m thinking that a @BlackBearPerf will be purchased; however, I want to make sure the vehicle is performing optimally before tuning.

I’d assume I’ll have a few days down while I wait for the tune or delete?

Yes, that's correct except there is of course a difference between mechanically deleting the AFM system and simply deactivating it with a tune.

If you can get the lifter unstuck with the Crazed Performance trick, then you can leave your AFM hardware as is, get the Autocal device from Black Bear, log data using the 20-30 minute drive cycle they prescribe, send them the ECM and TCM files that the Autocal captures, and they will send you back customized tune files to install with the Autocal that are based on your truck's data, and not simply a canned tune. Very important distinction. And of course they will deactivate AFM as well at the same time.

On the other hand, if you decide to mechanically delete the AFM hardware after all and want to install a larger cam as I did, then all you have to do is send Black Bear the cam specs and they will send you back a new tune to get you up and running so that you can log some more data, send it to them, and they will make the final tweaks. It's a great process.

In my case, the cam I chose is a 3-bolt cam (no VVT), so I had Black Bear deactivate VVT as well and in my case I haven't missed it.

 

[Geotrash]

Any other input on "maintenance items" at 165k miles? I was thinking 02 sensors? oh yeah - the transfer case will have to be removed to address the oil leak on the passenger side as well.....JUST $$$$$. GRRRRRR

I consider 165K to be 'midlife' on these trucks. So if yours is still a rust-free example, it's generally worth it to invest some money at this stage to bring the whole thing back to tip-top in terms of long-term reliability. $10K is still about $70K less than buying a new equivalent truck.

Assuming that your AFM delete kit comes with new lifters, valve springs, valve stem seals, etc, on *my* list of additional things I'd do if I were having a mechanical AFM delete done would be: (And yes I know that you've had some of these things done already)

Engine:
1/ New water pump and thermostat (OEM only)
2/ New Denso radiator (Denso is the OEM manufacturer)
3/ All new coolant and heater hoses and connectors
4/ New cooling fan motors
5/ New oil pump pickup tube o-ring
6/ Replace the oil pressure sensor (OEM only) and delete the screen under it.
7/ Replace the oil pressure relief valve in the oil pan, or better yet - plug it. It's no longer needed without AFM.
8/ New coolant temp sensor (OEM only)
9/ New plugs and wires
10/ New belts, idler pulleys and tensioner.

Other engine compartment and transmission items to do at midlife:
1/ Replace the torque converter in the transmission with one that has a billet cover and stronger lockup clutch. Do the rear main seal at the same time along with the oil gallery barbell at the back of the engine as they can sometimes bleed off oil pressure later in life.
2/ Replace both motor mounts
3/ Replace engine oil cooler hoses
4/ Replace transmission fluid cooler hoses
5/ Replace power steering high pressure hose
6/ New alternator

This is WAY more than most people would do. But I plan to run both of our trucks for at least another 10 years, so the investment is worth it to me. That, and I really like knowing that I have a 99.999% chance of getting where I'm going.

 

[Pointer 21]

Yes, that's correct except there is of course a difference between mechanically deleting the AFM system and simply deactivating it with a tune.

If you can get the lifter unstuck with the Crazed Performance trick, then you can leave your AFM hardware as is, get the Autocal device from Black Bear, log data using the 20-30 minute drive cycle they prescribe, send them the ECM and TCM files that the Autocal captures, and they will send you back customized tune files to install with the Autocal that are based on your truck's data, and not simply a canned tune. Very important distinction. And of course they will deactivate AFM as well at the same time.

***On the other hand, if you decide to mechanically delete the AFM hardware after all and want to install a larger cam as I did, then all you have to do is send Black Bear the cam specs and they will send you back a new tune to get you up and running so that you can log some more data, send it to them, and they will make the final tweaks. It's a great process.

In my case, the cam I chose is a 3-bolt cam (no VVT), so I had Black Bear deactivate VVT as well and in my case I haven't missed it.

Ok - things are moving fast and I'm KINDA picking up the process; however, my mechanic is saying he would "simply replace all the deactivation lifters with regular lifters for me to deactivate the system. A stuck lifter is never worked on to get unstuck. It is always replaced".

I had a hunch he wasn't going to go with my internet PHD here and he's not a performance shop....HA HA

Ya'll can e slap me but what is the process that makes the most sense? I'm sure there is an advantage to mechanically deleting but I'm sure that has a price as well.....If we're trying to get this unstuck and delete with a black bear tune...How do you get the vehicle running with a messed up lifter? I might need to find a performance shop or the little ghetto ones down the street for the gangster moves??

 

[Geotrash]

Ok - things are moving fast and I'm KINDA picking up the process; however, my mechanic is saying he would "simply replace all the deactivation lifters with regular lifters for me to deactivate the system. A stuck lifter is never worked on to get unstuck. It is always replaced".

I had a hunch he wasn't going to go with my internet PHD here and he's not a performance shop....HA HA

Ya'll can e slap me but what is the process that makes the most sense? I'm sure there is an advantage to mechanically deleting but I'm sure that has a price as well.....If we're trying to get this unstuck and delete with a black bear tune...How do you get the vehicle running with a messed up lifter? I might need to find a performance shop or the little ghetto ones down the street for the gangster moves??

Yeah, so your mechanic seems to know nothing of the Crazed Performance process for getting the lifter unstuck and wants to do a mechanical delete because that's what he knows. That's fine. I shared the info about unsticking the lifter in case you were willing to take a crack at it yourself but perhaps not, and that's fine too it just means you're in for around $2-3K just for the AFM delete. If you do decide to try to unstick the lifter and you're successful, then it should run just fine while you do the data logging for the Blackbear tune.

But if that's just not something you want to try, then the only process I see for you is paying your mechanic to do a mechanical delete, followed by a tune. Hopefully he also knows that he'll need to replace the cam also. @swathdiver knows the correct part number for the GM factory cam that has the same spec as your existing cam, including VVT, but doesn't have the AFM profiles. Essentially it would be the same as the factory cam for the L92. Or you can upgrade to a more aggressive cam. Either way, presumably the shop would also have the ability to tune out the AFM in order to get you up and running again (it won't run right with a non-AFM cam if the AFM is still active in the tune). Then you could do a follow-up performance tune through Blackbear which is still well worth it.

 

[Pointer 21]

You've created a beast:

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-7379-...ce-dod-afm-delete-kit-for-536062-engines.aspx

Here's the deal I don't want to cut any corners and want it all done right. I just spoke with black bear and we're putting our heads together.

The mechanic, myself, or another shop will do what I want....I need to figure that part out. Will the vehicle run with an "unstuck" lifter? I'm in over my head...