Alignment on Lifted Truck

[Wake]

From what I gathered when I was researching torsion key level kits…Whether you buy aftermarket reindexed keys, ford keys, or crank your stock ones...all will apply more pressure to the torsion bars thus adding the stress. The reindexed keys will only allow you to crank more than the stock keys…and this will actually allow you to apply more tension on the bars. I have a 2wd so I went with 3” lift spindles to avoid any of these problems.

From what I gathered during reading about the options it seems to me that aftermarket keys don't apply more tension on the bars to raise the truck but instead change the orientation of the bars to raise the truck. It makes sense to me as explained that it doesn't hurt the suspension feel like simply cranking the stock keys.

Am I incorrect?

 

[Screwd up 6]

I guess I was wrong on what I thought about the tension/pressure/load on the bars due to cranking.

"Another con is as you increase the ride height by adjusting your keys, the ride gets worse. Now it’s a common misconception that there is more of a load on the bar and this is the cause. That is impossible since the LCA moves as well, so there is no more torsion on the bar than before, the spring rate does not actually change like many belive. The twisting action does not change the pre-load on the bar directly, so cranking your bars is just like adding a block in the rear or a coil spacer. It is simply changing the position of the spring"

Taken from here
http://www.gmfullsize.com/tech/torsion401.html

Very good read.

 

[Wake]

I guess I was wrong on what I thought about the tension/pressure/load on the bars due to cranking.

"Another con is as you increase the ride height by adjusting your keys, the ride gets worse. Now it’s a common misconception that there is more of a load on the bar and this is the cause. That is impossible since the LCA moves as well, so there is no more torsion on the bar than before, the spring rate does not actually change like many belive. The twisting action does not change the pre-load on the bar directly, so cranking your bars is just like adding a block in the rear or a coil spacer. It is simply changing the position of the spring"

Taken from here
http://www.gmfullsize.com/tech/torsion401.html

Very good read.

Thanks for the link!

I'm still learning about these as I've only had coil and leaf springs in the past, much different animal.

I'm still wondering though if maybe my bars are weak as I mentioned in an earlier post the front end sure seems to move a lot on rough roads and it just has this, '*****' feel to it. Shocks did nothing to improve it so it makes me suspect the bars.

I'm half temped to crank the stock keys to stiffen up the ride a bit and see if that actually improves to too soft feeling I have now. I know it's an Escalade but even my friend's Denali rides much better and she has almost twice the mileage as my Escalade. I'm getting ready to turn 90K and her Denali is almost at 170K miles with absolutely no work done to the suspension yet.

 

[Screwd up 6]

Mark a spot on the head of the bolts. Count your cranks (2-3 full rotations). Then take for a drive. See if you like. Adjust From there. If you don't go back to stock then make sure you do an alignment.

 

[Blazed]

It's the caster.
I didn't read the whole thread but I saw the specs.
Negative caster makes the wheels want to flip around. Caster is the angle of the ball joints based on a straight up and down line. (Negative is when the upper ball joint is farther forward than the lower ball joint. Positive caster makes the truck drive straighter. Like when you have the wheel turned and the wheel flips around back to straight.

If any of you have ever played with your kids ripstick(caster board) you'll notice because of the caster on the wheel brackets the wheels will only roll one way.

Edit : should of read the whole thread as you already figured it out but what I said can still apply so I'll leave it.

 

[Screwd up 6]

So you think the caster was making it the steering response erratically? When I changed the toe a bit more in everything was fine. I have lowered the truck and sold the lift kit, did a measuring tape alignment on toe for now until I get to the shop and it handles perfect. I thought caster made the truck wander and pull...not necessary affect the way the truck dives into a turn when you barely turn the wheel. Not saying you are wrong, just confused a little bit.

 

[Blazed]

Well my truck has spent enough time on the alignment rack for everyone's truck on this forum.
As well as I just finished an entire semester of class where I essentially did alignments the whole semester. I aligned my truck in class numerous times and from what I read in the text book and what I learned from experience is this.

Camber effects tire wear and ride quality mostly.
Toe obviously wears tires and can cause the spontaneous steering feelings you're getting if the wheels aren't matching each other perfectly.
Caster plays a big part in how straight the truck drives regardless of how perfectly the other two adjustments are.

If your caster is bad/negative and say you're in a parking lot making a turn instead of the wheels wanting to go back to straight they'll go all the way to full lock. As well as if the caster isn't even side to side while going down the highway it will pull to the side that has more positive camber. Because the opposite wheels wants to flip around. So say your passenger side camber is positive and your driver is negative it'll pull to the right in my experience.
I also find what I read in this thread to be true about the front wheels toeing out due to friction so I always add a touch of toe in.

But also every truck is different and every lift kit is supposedly to come with new alignment specs you're supposed to comply to.

---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

Sorry if that's hard to follow.

 

[Screwd up 6]

Well my truck has spent enough time on the alignment rack for everyone's truck on this forum.
As well as I just finished an entire semester of class where I essentially did alignments the whole semester. I aligned my truck in class numerous times and from what I read in the text book and what I learned from experience is this.

Camber effects tire wear and ride quality mostly.
Toe obviously wears tires and can cause the spontaneous steering feelings you're getting if the wheels aren't matching each other perfectly.
Caster plays a big part in how straight the truck drives regardless of how perfectly the other two adjustments are.

If your caster is bad/negative and say you're in a parking lot making a turn instead of the wheels wanting to go back to straight they'll go all the way to full lock. As well as if the caster isn't even side to side while going down the highwayhttp://www.audiomack.com/song/cantstophiphop/shootin-feat-wiz-khalifa it will pull to the side that has more positive camber. Because the opposite wheels wants to flip around. So say your passenger side camber is positive and your driver is negative it'll pull to the right in my experience.
I also find what I read in this thread to be true about the front wheels toeing out due to friction so I always add a touch of toe in.

But also every truck is different and every lift kit is supposedly to come with new alignment specs you're supposed to comply to.

---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

Sorry if that's hard to follow.

I followed your post up until the point that you threw in the link for wizkalifa song haha.

 

[Blazed]

Ahahhaa I don't even know how that happened.

Fixed!

 

[Wake]

Mark a spot on the head of the bolts. Count your cranks (2-3 full rotations). Then take for a drive. See if you like. Adjust From there. If you don't go back to stock then make sure you do an alignment.

Yup, that's what I plan on doing.

As for the alignment, I'm set. LOL.

I do all the work on my vehicles and have been replacing suspension components quite a lot in the last few years on several vehicles. I have an alignment contract on each vehicle and have them aligned at least twice a year because of parts I replace as I find bad ones. They know me pretty well at the shop, 4 vehicles (5 including my roomie's that I also work on) and usually two visits a year for each vehicle.

On a side note, if you have Merchant's Tire or one of their related companies around you they do pretty good work and have a deal I've never seen before on their alignment contract. You can transfer it to a new vehicle one time during the contract term. I buy the 5 year plans for around $200 and can keep the plan over at no cost if I switch vehicles somewhere along the line. Nobody else that I've come across offers that option.

$200 for 5 years worth seems a bargain to me as they want $80 for a one time job. Each time I'm in the shop for a flat repair or anything else, they see I have the contract and offer an alignment while I'm at the shop.