Why do you sound like your gettin pissed at everyone on this thread? I mean, if what these car audio store guys are sayin is wrong, then why do they continue to sell them cuz if they didnt work then people would eventually stop buying them regardless of what the salesmen tell them. and as darktahoe said, he has more watts than me and he put a battery in and it helped. and you really havent given any advice on what I should actually DO. all youve really done is bashed people on what theyve posted.
Dude: as for your assertion that if it were wrong people would wise up...may I point out audiobahn, dual,DHD, American BASS, rockwood, pyramid, "1000w" amps that are huge heatsinks with mosfets maybe capable of 40w peak... Dynabatts that are Stinger batteries that are actually Hunter batteries... '1000W!!!!!' amps with 30 amp fusing
. You;ve all run across products that sell to the uninitiated and make you go WTF
DC is DC fellows.
1: I've given you PLENTY of advice... turning off eq and bassboost, and turning down the amp from unknown gain setting to unknown -unknown gain setting.
you stated flat out that if I suggested anything that would make it less loud you wouldnt do it, so I assumed you were uninterested in determining the casue of the problem and resolving it.
Have you DMM'd your amp to determine that the gain is set at least close to get teh power output required? Have you tried another amplifier preferably one with a known beefy power supply?? Which type of 'dimming' are you experiencing?
For someone with a technical problem you are short on details and short on follow thru... Sorry if I am blunt, but my time is very valuable.
As to why it sounds like i am pissed off, I wasn;t until now.
I am brisk, especially when I am engaged in my own research but will stop for a couple of minutes to offer a shove in the right direction. I try to lead you to the answer so you will learn something and be able to defend yourself against "he said" as opposed to 'but this other guy said'.
SO>>>
www.bcae1.com -simplest and most correct NooB site i ever found for explaining to someone why 'the salesman said' is wrong.
If my neighbor can understand it, you can.
http://www.bcae1.com/charging.htm
http://www.bcae1.com/chargin2.htm
As to why car audio sales guys say this that or the other etc etc. I can only speak to my experiences over the last 15+ years but:
A: because people would rather throw money at the problem than admit they made a mistake in product selection, install, etc... or that their salesperson was wrong. This means they have failed to discern trustworthiness correctly. They WANT to buy product to fix it so they don;t feel like they screwed up and a salesman's job is to sell a solution, preferably one that puts money in his pocket.
B: because people are uneducated about electricity, car audio, etc... and so are 95% of sales persons.
I WAS one of those 'car audio store' guys... and i can't count on both hands how much complete falsehood and bogus explanations I generally heard in a single morning from salespersons. It is ludicrous the rudimentary knowledge most otherwise excellent salespersons lack... and what they do have is usually 18th hand passed down from salesman to salesman since the beginning of time.
(alternately)
because "I have twin yellow tops" sounds much cooler than 'I have an OEM alt with a normal battery and a properly designed amplifier with the gains set properly.'
ok?
Enough of that....
On to the FACTS my dear mr Watson.
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Dimming is:
1: a drop in system voltage (usually around 1/2 volt to 1 volt) due to demand being greater than supply - incandescent lights are VERY voltage sensitive, and even a 15% drop in illumination is very noticeable to the human eye.
2: Can occur only at the beginning of the note, which means the alternator is adequate but the regulator is slow, or can continue during the entire note (inadequately sized alternator)
3: there are two possible power supplies:
---key off = battery at ~12.8 v
---engine on = alternator at ~14.4
A battery will only begin to discharge ONCE SYSTEM VOLTAGE HAS FALLEN TO 12.8V, meaning you are already experiencing dimming. Until then the battery is a LOAD on the system.
Thus:
1+2+3 = a battery is NOT the answer for dimming... but it COULD be a cause.
A battery can still start a modern fuel injected vehicle and have practically no reserve, or be bad enough that it is enough of a load on the alternator to negatively affect the current available for other jobs.
usually these are teh ones that leave you stranded the first cold day of winter, the hottest day of summer, or the time you left the lights on to unload groceries for 10-15 minutes.
Alternators can also have a single bad rectifier on one phase, and LOOK like they are charging... but on a scope you can see that they just don't put out the current. like 2 moderate steps forward and one big step back.
Amplifiers can also simply be crap. To save a buck, many manufacturers now use inadequate onboard capacitance or marginal power supplies. these units will draw more wattage than they should need too, or 'hit' the charging system much harder upfront, which doesn;t give the regulator the milliseconds it needs to ramp up output. so you get the dim and comes back issue.
This doesnt mean run out and buy a capacitor... for one caps are ALWAYS discharging and are an additional load on the charging system. And they should be replaced every 2 years. ($$$) generally it takes around 5 farads to make any meaningful difference when it is outside the amp chassis, and even then you need to have the cap within 3 wiring inches of the amp power terminals.
So... lots more expense, no guarantee of meaningful results UNLESS the amp is poorly built. then you can buy a $300 bandaid for your $150 amp.
The real solution is
a: Get the smallest alternator that is adequate to your needs. if that means OEM then OEM
b: wire the system with adequately sized wiring. Remember Watts = Voltage x Amperage... voltage loss hurts, big time. lose voltage you pull even MORE amps, and that causes more voltage loss if the alt is marginal or in adequate, and you pull even more amps, ad nauseum; ad infinitum.
c: use low resistance couplings, ends, and fusing. Bolt down fusing best, but use ****, not AGU at worst. AGU is the absolute worst.
d: crimp fasteners beat the pants off set screw fasteners. Bare wires do corrode. use Dieelectric grease.
e: jacketed wire CORRODES TOO. If you are reusing wire for a decade... you'll see it. buy fresh wire and seal it up. For CCA wire, increase the wire to the next larger size for similar performance.
f: set the gains properly (see bcae1.com or other websites for directions) And buy an amp largeenough for your needs, and use an enclosure large enough for your needs. Two pioneer flat 12s with 350w each in an ultra small box are about the equivalent of ONE plain jane 12 in a normal box... with only 300w on it. And would lose handily to the same 12 in a ported box.
g; if it isn;t loud enough, remember that to double loudness you need double the power for twice the excursion. perhaps you need to step up to something larger. the gain can be used to REDUCE volume to balance the system... but should never be used to increase it.
Any questions?
whe you figure out WHY your lights are dimming, and what component is culpable, then you can figure out the PROPER solution. Don't throw bandaids and fairytale wishes at it.
If you want to try a second battery without the expense of rewiring for it///
use a set of jumper cables from one battery to the next.
you cna do that right at the car audio store.
however do NOT ever buy a stinger/dynabatt/odessey battery, you can get the same battery for a LOT less as a Hunter. (like 25-50% off).
You cna also monitor the voltage at the amp to determine if the 12.8v battery somehow magically raises the voltage at the amplifier. If the voltage is still dropping significantly, you still have the problem, even if you can't 'see' it in the day time/under the shop lights.
Just remember that two batteries wired in parallel sans isolator will pass small amounts of voltage back and forth when the engine is not on and will discharge each other and ruin each other.
I used to have twin Interstate type 26s for 1300 total CCA because my MGB only had a 30 amp alternator... and i had a 60+ amp system... I had to charge the batteries by driving sans radio 2/3rds of the time, and by using the charger at home.
that one DID run off the battery... so it never dimmed to the beat either, LOL. I never got around to installing a 100 amp Triumph alternator and an isolator to correct the problem.
Anyway, good luck to ya both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5WC4qMxlTA
