Home built 4L60E beast

[Mechanic421]

Started tearing down the extra 4L60e I bought to see what went wrong, what a I can reuse, and what I need to order. Hit a snag, sigh, seldom do these things give up without a fight.

The last bolt on bellhousing stripped immediately when I went to remive it. Tried welding head on it, tried cutting and hammering it out with screwdriver... tomorrow I have to go buy some of those screw in easyouts *sigh*

Unless you have a better idea to get it out...

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

Drill through the center till the head pops off

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I will look up Circle D I just got off phone with a couple companies that custom build torque converters. Mike at Protoque spec'ed me out a 10.5" single clutch 2400 to 2600 stall. He says they build quite a few converters for lower stall truck applications. I also spoke with John at Speed Co. He was more knowledgably with street strip stuff. They cost from $900 to $1400 (with triple disk clutch).

I'm getting ready to order parts for my transmission build. I am really curious about the forward clutches spec'ed in the performabuild video here at 23:30

I really like the idea of a virtually indestructible drive clutch but cannot quite hear what he's saying. Are those the Alto carbon clutches?

I'm thinking carbon clutches for most demanding shift (highest load shift), and alto reds for 3/4 maybe other clutch packs too. He says borg warner (factory) is more than good enough though. Then a smart shell, and shift servos from sonnax (at least for 4th gear shift). I might get the performance kit / springs, accumulators, and pump parts from sonnax too to rebuild. Not sure I'll do a shift kit as of yet though. I can do that with the transmission in the truck if I have to. The video claims I can get away with a 4 pinion planetary, but I think I'll upgrade that anyways. I'm going to order from Summit as I worry about getting chinese crap on eBay.

I just wish they made a kit with all this stuff.

 

[Stonefort]

I hear these are super nice for the 4l60e....


"The shift from 3.06 ratio (1st) to 1.63 ratio (2nd) is a dramatic ratio change, allowing engine RPM drop that results in performance engines falling out of the optimal power band. "

• This 2.84 input carrier kit changes these popular units from a "wide ratio" 3.06/1.63 to a "close ratio" 2.84/1.55 Six-Pinion design with advanced durability features
• Keeps engine in power band on 1-2 & 3-4 shifts, allows longer pull in 1st & 2nd gears

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010MNWDN6/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A24QG0FLSQVG2B&psc=1


"

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I've seen those sonnax planetary sets. I think they would be AWESOME, however, I really like the low first gear as I go off road. It'll help me climb much better without shifting and risking the tires slipping. Otherwise, that gearset would be a no brainer I think the 4L80e has a lower first gear if memory serves me right.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Looked at Circle D torque converters, all were higher than the stall I want. I want 2400 to 2600 max.

Putting notes here I got from a friend... Trailblazer SS torque converter HERE is great inexpensive option. Otherwise, look for one that's billet or furnace brazed if possible but not absolutely necessary. Look also at the stall torque ratio. And that custom torque converters aren't always that great, many have quality issues.

Got case apart on my donor 4L60E. Only pesky thing was stupid stuck bolt in bellhousing. Dang did that eat up time. Ended up getting it out with a screw extractor.

Then pulled the front clutch assemblies out, valve body, accumulator, shift plate dealie, check balls, wiring harness, and accumulator. Only took a few minutes.

There are a couple parts on the case that stand out though. I wonder if it's broken or been modified?

There are two areas I'm pointing to in the case. They appear to have rough casting, almost as though they were knocked out. Area on right corner, is filler hole. The casting is REALLY rough. Probably not an issue, I can clean it up but noticed it chewed up the rubber seal for the dipstick.

Next is right behind the pump, towards the valve body / bottom side. I'm showing from inside of case there. I'm looking at other cases online and seems to be in other pictures?

I noticed the dude's band broke. He chewed off all the friction material and spewed it into the pan haha... no metal on the magnet though. Just curious about those rough areas especially one behind pump.

 

[pwtr02ss]

Started tearing down the extra 4L60e I bought to see what went wrong, what a I can reuse, and what I need to order. Hit a snag, sigh, seldom do these things give up without a fight.

The last bolt on bellhousing stripped immediately when I went to remive it. Tried welding head on it, tried cutting and hammering it out with screwdriver... tomorrow I have to go buy some of those screw in easyouts *sigh*

Unless you have a better idea to get it out...

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

I haven't read through the thread fully, but are you using the t50+ bit and not a standard t50? Also, use an impact. Those ******* are in there good. Just drill the head off the bolt and it'll come right out.

I've built a few of these over the years. Lately, I've been getting my parts from global transmission parts. They have bell housing bolts as well.

I used sonax smart shell, red eagle extra wide band and, new GM drum, pinless accumulators in all three locations, and I really prefer borg warner frictions. I don't like using the Zpak modules in something that'll be towing (Or any module that contains more than 6 frictions). The thinner the steel (to get more of packs in the same area), the quicker heat can warp them, in my opinion. Most shops use stock replacement frictions, just make sure the 3/4 are the "HD" style.

I haven't read a ton of good things regarding alto frictions, other than the extra wide band.

I also put Kolene steels in the last one. I'm not sure if they make a huge difference or not.

I used a circled 26-2800 convertor and so far, I'm really happy with it.

 

[pwtr02ss]

Looked at Circle D torque converters, all were higher than the stall I want. I want 2400 to 2600 max.

Putting notes here I got from a friend... Trailblazer SS torque converter HERE is great inexpensive option. Otherwise, look for one that's billet or furnace brazed if possible but not absolutely necessary. Look also at the stall torque ratio. And that custom torque converters aren't always that great, many have quality issues.

Got case apart on my donor 4L60E. Only pesky thing was stupid stuck bolt in bellhousing. Dang did that eat up time. Ended up getting it out with a screw extractor.

Then pulled the front clutch assemblies out, valve body, accumulator, shift plate dealie, check balls, wiring harness, and accumulator. Only took a few minutes.

There are a couple parts on the case that stand out though. I wonder if it's broken or been modified?

There are two areas I'm pointing to in the case. They appear to have rough casting, almost as though they were knocked out. Area on right corner, is filler hole. The casting is REALLY rough. Probably not an issue, I can clean it up but noticed it chewed up the rubber seal for the dipstick.

Next is right behind the pump, towards the valve body / bottom side. I'm showing from inside of case there. I'm looking at other cases online and seems to be in other pictures?

I noticed the dude's band broke. He chewed off all the friction material and spewed it into the pan haha... no metal on the magnet though. Just curious about those rough areas especially one behind pump.

Place behind the pump is normal, they all look like that in a way. The chip on the case near the dipstick doesn't seem to be a big issue either. Just do a really good inspection on the rest of the case.

 

[pwtr02ss]

One more thing since I read past the place I quoted.

The 5 pinion planets are a solid upgrade and if you feel the need to, do it. I was having a hard time talking myself out of buying them for the last one (its in my avalanche so its heavy). I called global transmission to ask about the "GM" vs aftermarket. Kalib basically talked me out of doing the upgrade. He said he rarely sees issues until you get above 600-700 rwhp. He also said that he has never had an issue with the aftermarket, 5 pinion setups. Between the GM and aftermarket, he said he would rather run the aftermarket units, which shocked me.

When you get into the carbon materials for the bands, they have excellent holding power, until they slip. Once they happens, they glaze and never seem to be right after that. Kinda like brake pads. In something heavy like a tahoe, the extra wide red eagle band is the preferred band. It has great grip but not hard enough to glaze.

I'm far from a pro and definitely don't know everything. Ive done a ton of reading over the past 8 years and these are a few highlights I've came across. You have great information in the thread already, just wanted to throw in my experiences.

I keep mentioning global, not because I work for them or know them, Kalib really knows the parts he sells and I was very impressed by that. I had some questions about things a few times and he answered everything I asked. They have a customer for life with me. That seems lost in this day and time.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I haven't read through the thread fully, but are you using the t50+ bit and not a standard t50? Also, use an impact. Those ******* are in there good. Just drill the head off the bolt and it'll come right out.

I've built a few of these over the years. Lately, I've been getting my parts from global transmission parts. They have bell housing bolts as well.

I used sonax smart shell, red eagle extra wide band and, new GM drum, pinless accumulators in all three locations, and I really prefer borg warner frictions. I don't like using the Zpak modules in something that'll be towing (Or any module that contains more than 6 frictions). The thinner the steel (to get more of packs in the same area), the quicker heat can warp them, in my opinion. Most shops use stock replacement frictions, just make sure the 3/4 are the "HD" style.

I haven't read a ton of good things regarding alto frictions, other than the extra wide band.

I also put Kolene steels in the last one. I'm not sure if they make a huge difference or not.

I used a circled 26-2800 convertor and so far, I'm really happy with it.

Thanks! It was a PITA haha probably took like 3 or 4 hours to get that one bolt out. I finally got it out with an extractor screw. I had been working to drill the head off with a step bit. But switched between that and extractor till I could get a good bite. In the end the extractor won that race.

I'm also posting on LS1tech.com. Dang do they have some really good 4L60E build threads on there.

One more thing since I read past the place I quoted.

The 5 pinion planets are a solid upgrade and if you feel the need to, do it. I was having a hard time talking myself out of buying them for the last one (its in my avalanche so its heavy). I called global transmission to ask about the "GM" vs aftermarket. Kalib basically talked me out of doing the upgrade. He said he rarely sees issues until you get above 600-700 rwhp. He also said that he has never had an issue with the aftermarket, 5 pinion setups. Between the GM and aftermarket, he said he would rather run the aftermarket units, which shocked me.

When you get into the carbon materials for the bands, they have excellent holding power, until they slip. Once they happens, they glaze and never seem to be right after that. Kinda like brake pads. In something heavy like a tahoe, the extra wide red eagle band is the preferred band. It has great grip but not hard enough to glaze.

I'm far from a pro and definitely don't know everything. Ive done a ton of reading over the past 8 years and these are a few highlights I've came across. You have great information in the thread already, just wanted to throw in my experiences.

I keep mentioning global, not because I work for them or know them, Kalib really knows the parts he sells and I was very impressed by that. I had some questions about things a few times and he answered everything I asked. They have a customer for life with me. That seems lost in this day and time.

There is a transmission builder on the LS1tech forum that swears by the 4 pinion plantaris. He says they are stronger and uses them even past 1000hp in builds. He said he's seen people put 5 pinions in perfectly good 4L60E builds otherwise and have the 5 pinion planets blow up. He claims the gears are weaker cause smaller, and they don't oil as well. The design has much more restriction to flow of oil. I notice on performa built website they make heavy use of the 4 pinions as well. I was also told the 5 pinion was a cost savings measure. They could reduce the cost of the planetary gear set, then beef up the shafts a bit, and save money overall. So if switching to 5 pinions you really need better input shafts to make up for the weaker gears. Not sure if that's true. Long story short, I don't think the 5 pinion gear sets are worth the money now. I am not even sure if they are stronger necessarily. I was also told Sonnax makes good stuff, but it's a lot of marketing and $$ for hype. That said I really like their smart shell so I'll get that in the least. Leaning towards simple corvette servos now, although may still get 4th gear servo from sonnax to make doubly sure that one holds as best as possible.

Here's my thread over there, https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1950036-4l60e-build.html

 

[pwtr02ss]

Thanks! It was a PITA haha probably took like 3 or 4 hours to get that one bolt out. I finally got it out with an extractor screw. I had been working to drill the head off with a step bit. But switched between that and extractor till I could get a good bite. In the end the extractor won that race.

I'm also posting on LS1tech.com. Dang do they have some really good 4L60E build threads on there.



There is a transmission builder on the LS1tech forum that swears by the 4 pinion plantaris. He says they are stronger and uses them even past 1000hp in builds. He said he's seen people put 5 pinions in perfectly good 4L60E builds otherwise and have the 5 pinion planets blow up. He claims the gears are weaker cause smaller, and they don't oil as well. The design has much more restriction to flow of oil. I notice on performa built website they make heavy use of the 4 pinions as well. I was also told the 5 pinion was a cost savings measure. They could reduce the cost of the planetary gear set, then beef up the shafts a bit, and save money overall. So if switching to 5 pinions you really need better input shafts to make up for the weaker gears. Not sure if that's true. Long story short, I don't think the 5 pinion gear sets are worth the money now. I am not even sure if they are stronger necessarily. I was also told Sonnax makes good stuff, but it's a lot of marketing and $$ for hype. That said I really like their smart shell so I'll get that in the least. Leaning towards simple corvette servos now, although may still get 4th gear servo from sonnax to make doubly sure that one holds as best as possible.

Here's my thread over there, https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1950036-4l60e-build.html

The Smart shell is a really nice design. The pinless accumulator pistons are really nice too. I put a corvette servo in all of them. I've used the longer pin and the stock pin. I couldn't tell a difference between them. I usually just leave the stock length pin. The longer one an cause some issues on the 4th gear shifting (or so I've read).

My typical build consists of the following...

New drum
red eagle extra wide band
borg or Raybestos frictions (Again, I've read the borg frictions wick fluid better and hold it longer. I've used both. No complaints on either, just prefer borg. Thats also what the oem uses)
standard rebuild kit
new valve body plate
smart shell
pinless accumulators in all 3 locations
new shift solenoids (GM)
if you don't have steel cage sprags, replace them with some that are

Go through the valve body and do a good inspection and cleaning. Replace all the o-rings and filters. Make sure all check balls are moving freely. Rebuild the pump. Replace bushings as needed. The pump and rear case have been the more common wear points in my experience. Make sure you air test as you go and double check the tolerances, especially on the 3/4 stack. You may have to change the pressure plate to get it right, just get it there. The closer to .060 you are, the better. I don't like to go under 0.060 because it can cause excessive heat. Always use boost springs as well.

If you have any questions that you don't get any answer on, hit me up and I'll do my best to help.

EDIT: Just went through the ls1 tech thread and it appears we have (mostly) the same opinions. Thats good, lol. Don't skip out on the sunshell. I've broken one. No reverse, 1st, or 4th gear. Really sucks when you don't know you broke it and pull in a driveway, facing downhill in the middle of the night to turn around, to try to find what that noise was and see if you lost anything...

IMO, stay away from the Alto frictions, the exception being the extra wide band. Remember, everyone has an option on why they think this or that works better. Choose the combo you want and stick with it.