Mild 6.0L Build Suggestions?

[Matthew Jeschke]

About ready to scream. Anybody here have experience tuning timing / spark advance on Gen III LS / P01 controller? Damn I'm having a hard time. Put everything back into closed loop with the fueling dialed in. Then picked back up my old spark tuning tables and started dialing in advance in both Low and High Octane tables.

I cannot make heads or tails of this. I added a bunch of timing down low like under 1200 RPM but 1600 to 2000 part throttle (0.52+) is all goofy. I pull timing there as I log knock. However, there's a massive hole in power right there. I cannot even maintain highway speed. If I punch up above to 2500 or 3000 rpm its find with light knock registered here and there which I can tune out I think. However, getting past that hole is a PITA / pretty hard & dangerous. I couldn't merge on interstate or even a road with 50 mph speed limit.

STARTED WITH THIS MAP:


AFTER ABOUT 12 RUNS AND 1/2 TANK OF GAS - 1400 to 2000 RPM sucks bigtime, no power and cannot figure out how to fix it. Add timing it knocks, reduce timing, no power.

 

[Stonefort]

Can you actually hear the knock? I would look into trying to figure out if it's actually knock or the sensors picking up false knock. If you are pulling so much timing that it's barley making enough power to move, that would seem like it's false knock.

 

[Stonefort]

About ready to scream. Anybody here have experience tuning timing / spark advance on Gen III LS / P01 controller? Damn I'm having a hard time. Put everything back into closed loop with the fueling dialed in. Then picked back up my old spark tuning tables and started dialing in advance in both Low and High Octane tables.

I cannot make heads or tails of this. I added a bunch of timing down low like under 1200 RPM but 1600 to 2000 part throttle (0.52+) is all goofy. I pull timing there as I log knock. However, there's a massive hole in power right there. I cannot even maintain highway speed. If I punch up above to 2500 or 3000 rpm its find with light knock registered here and there which I can tune out I think. However, getting past that hole is a PITA / pretty hard & dangerous. I couldn't merge on interstate or even a road with 50 mph speed limit.

STARTED WITH THIS MAP:
View attachment 297381

AFTER ABOUT 12 RUNS AND 1/2 TANK OF GAS - 1400 to 2000 RPM sucks bigtime, no power and cannot figure out how to fix it. Add timing it knocks, reduce timing, no power.
View attachment 297379

Hey bub, here is a good video on gen 3 false knock and how to determine if it's false knock and what to do about it. This is Hp tuners specific for you.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

@Stonefort THANKS I really appreciate the help I'll watch Goat Rope's video. On a similar note, half my battle was the tune. I used donor PCM from a 5.3L. That wasn't a good idea! I tried to tune from that baseline. I rebase lined my PCM with 6.0 LQ9 tune from 2003 Silverado SS. It's still producing a little knock though. Trying to figure out if it's a fueling issue. I do recall when I was tuning airflow I observed virtually no knock what so ever. However, it started creeping in when I turned back on closed loop.

On another note, I'm wondering about ordering one of these cold case radiators HERE as well as installing the oil cooler lines. This engine runs a bit hotter. It hasn't really been an issue with it overheating, I just notice it climbs to 212F really quick and stabilizes there. Also it is 115F outside here right now *sigh*

 

[Stonefort]

@Stonefort THANKS I really appreciate the help I'll watch Goat Rope's video. On a similar note, half my battle was the tune. I used donor PCM from a 5.3L. That wasn't a good idea! I tried to tune from that baseline. I rebase lined my PCM with 6.0 LQ9 tune from 2003 Silverado SS. It's still producing a little knock though. Trying to figure out if it's a fueling issue. I do recall when I was tuning airflow I observed virtually no knock what so ever. However, it started creeping in when I turned back on closed loop.

On another note, I'm wondering about ordering one of these cold case radiators HERE as well as installing the oil cooler lines. This engine runs a bit hotter. It hasn't really been an issue with it overheating, I just notice it climbs to 212F really quick and stabilizes there. Also it is 115F outside here right now *sigh*

Welcome! How easily are you going into power enrichment? Ever since I lowered the threshold to enter PE through the rpm and MAP I am getting into PE/ open loop a lot easier and it really scoots well now with less throttle....and it's 95 here. I'm not logging any knock retard on stock tune. Haven't even touched timing or fueling on my tune. If it's not false knock...it could be the commaned afr not being not rich enough (cool enough) to support the timing advance?

You can see when it goes into PE by watching commanded afr/eq. The command will quickly drop from 14s ( or 1 if looking at lambda ) to 12 something / .85

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Great advices! @Stonefort

My PE settings are below. Factory had the delay disabled. Somebody on HP Tuners said to set it to 1500 RPM and short delay.

Then factory had both hot and cold tables set to 90 PE Throttle Position. I tried 65 and now the 75 with no real noticeable difference.

I'm testing the false knock theory now. I REALLY don't want to desensitize my knock sensors so going about it a different way. First I added 91 octane and am running the Low Octane tables in the PCM only.

I still got knock. However, I could hit the cells on the data log again and not get knock the next time. It's also showing up in somewhat random places, basically, never really a guarantee I'll get knock the next time I hit that pressure and RPM.

I started instead fiddling with other systems on the drivetrain to see if they are creating noises tripping the sensors. I tried tow haul on transmission and manual shifting. Those seemed to affect it. However, I last tried to turn off my AC. I was driving back in my neighborhood when this came to mind. Then I beat on the truck. I mean I would go to WOT, drop down into drive, hit brakes, click tow haul, really just fidget to TRY and get the computer to register knock. It hit virtually all the cells that had previously shown knock but didn't register any this time. However, all of this was under 30 MPH.

I'm wondering if my AC compressor is creating noise that's tripping the knock sensor. It's so damn hot here though... I'm going to do a run again at highway speed and see what happens.

PS. on another note, was cool to hit the gas at 15 MPH and have the tires break loose! My 5.3L certainly couldn't do that!

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I may have figured this out...

- Put in 91 octane gas. Knock persisted.
- Tried driving with and without AC. Knock persisted.
- Saw events starting at 0.48 cylinder pressure, so 0.48 and above I removed nearly 6 degrees of timing and added 5% fuel across board. Knock persisted, magnitude of which remained unaffected.

Next I decided to start logging what gear I was in. Knock almost always seemed to follow shifts. I drove around trying to educe gear shifts after I noticed this. My knock magnitude increased as I did it. However, was surprised transmission temperature wasn't rising. I dug deeper. Selecting 1st gear didn't seem to have any effect on knock. Next forced 2nd gear through VCM Scanner. Applied throttle on slight incline. Once rose above 0.48 cylinder pressure the knock started to come back. And then transmission temperature did rise a little bit. I then forced direct drive / 3rd. No knock.

I suspect my 2/4 band is slipping. Amazed, that makes enough noise for the knock sensors to pickup? I can sometimes feel it in the pedal when it does it. It's a vibration and hesitation to accelerate.

 

[Stonefort]

I may have figured this out...

- Put in 91 octane gas. Knock persisted.
- Tried driving with and without AC. Knock persisted.
- Saw events starting at 0.48 cylinder pressure, so 0.48 and above I removed nearly 6 degrees of timing and added 5% fuel across board. Knock persisted, magnitude of which remained unaffected.

Next I decided to start logging what gear I was in. Knock almost always seemed to follow shifts. I drove around trying to educe gear shifts after I noticed this. My knock magnitude increased as I did it. However, was surprised transmission temperature wasn't rising. I dug deeper. Selecting 1st gear didn't seem to have any effect on knock. Next forced 2nd gear through VCM Scanner. Applied throttle on slight incline. Once rose above 0.48 cylinder pressure the knock started to come back. And then transmission temperature did rise a little bit. I then forced direct drive / 3rd. No knock.

I suspect my 2/4 band is slipping. Amazed, that makes enough noise for the knock sensors to pickup? I can sometimes feel it in the pedal when it does it. It's a vibration and hesitation to accelerate.

That's interesting. I wonder if there is a way to log the suspected 2/4 slip with some math parameters set up like I have seen folks set up scanner to log TCC slip? Here in a bit I'm gonna snap a pic of my PE settings and also my knock sensor settings. Would be interesting to see your knock sensor settings. Brb

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

That's interesting. I wonder if there is a way to log the suspected 2/4 slip with some math parameters set up like I have seen folks set up scanner to log TCC slip? Here in a bit I'm gonna snap a pic of my PE settings and also my knock sensor settings. Would be interesting to see your knock sensor settings. Brb

Oh wow yeah I was curious about that too. I imagine lockup should take place within a certain time window. The VSS sensor could be compared to input RPM and if the lockup doesn't occur within that window then a fault could be realized. That level of sophistication is WAY above my head in VCM scanner haha

Side note, just logged 150 miles of overlanding for first time with new motor. I got 15 MPG which is stellar. Not sure if that'll hold for future trips but dang. I was getting around 12 MPG with old 5.3L.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

My muffler fell off on the trail haha... I still need to get this engine tuned up. However, finally got a decent audio clip of the engine. You can hear the lifters when I rev it up. They sound totally awesome.

Damn engine has SOOOOO much power that I didn't even realize I was climbing up a rock in that video hahahaha It EATS up these trails when before with 5.3L I had to put the peddle to the floor to get up some climbs... here I just crack the throttle. Even climbing up that granite surface in 4 wheel drive, I just barely cracked the throttle. It's an absolute beast.