REAL FACTS ABOUT HID LIGHTING-A Must Read

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Eagle

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I don't understand why Daniel Stern or whoever this guy is, is attempting to try to ban HID's. I mean, they're for SAFETY. I'm seeing more and more Prius's (did I spell that right) and such other lame cars with HID's. Lately I've been noticing many minivans with HID's.
What's the problem?

huh? He's all for HIDs... in HID housings as OEM equipped.
If you read his site and came away thinking Daniel Stern is 'anti-HID' you need to go back and read again. ANd again. And again. Until it sinks in. He is PRO- LIGHTING, as long as it is correct and legal, and is a proponent of legalizing e-code patterns in the US for safety and better performance, as well as cost savings for manufacturers and consumers.

HID's anywhere but OEM have been illegal since invented (for more than a decade).
FMVSS 108 is the federal lighting standard.
In it, the language used bans NON OEM HIDs because the method of light production is changed (PnP), or the headlamp assembly is not as originally certified (retrofit projectors), or simply that the thing was never tested (formerly most of the ebay housings. Still?).


The problem in the real world is that while YOU see better with your PnP HID kit, everyone else around you sees WORSE.

While MOB may believe that spill over from an HID kit is no worse than poorly aimed Halogens, I have to differ.
1: Low beam headlights are 35w... around 1100 lumens at best
2: HID kits are around 3500 lumens... 3 times as bright.
3: intentional spill over from a DOT reflector housing seems to be between 1/5 and 1/3rd intensity... so on a PNP kit the spillover/glare alone is about the same as having the same light shining directly at you... plus the bulb is still 3 times brighter when you look or are driving towards the vehicle.


Unlike the gradual switch to halogens about 20-25 years ago, (halogen sealed beams in 78, then finally halogens in composite housings in 1984). HIDs are 300% brighter, not a mere 30% brighter. And yes, there were complaints of glare from Halogen headlights also.
 
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DenaliAK

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The city cops here will pull people over all day long for tinted windows, which in my opinion is stupid, but they don't ever seem to pull anyone over for too bright of lights.

Different places work differently, I guess.

And Whiteout is right. Techinically speaking, any modification of any kind to a headlight or anything other then OEM headlights is illegal. And an HID bulb is considered a mod unless it is in a housing designed for HID's.
 

viximaging

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wow that was a lot of reading... I like the clean cut off of projectors.. I have eye trouble now and hate to admit it.. I was like blizzard nothing bothered me.. now I find myself being blinded and having to wear my glasses at night.. sux..
 

thehoe92

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I realized tonight while I was driving that I also have an advantage of 5% tint blocking my side mirrors so its almost as if I am wearing sunglasses at night

but still I love the look of Blizzard's headlights :)
 

Narco

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it may be illegal per the federal standard but city and state cops cant enforce those those laws. unless there is something listed specifically outlawing them on a state level or a city ordinance nothing can be done to you.
 

Eagle

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incorrect. almost every single state refers to fmvss 108 as the state standard except where exceptions are noted, while some codify a duplicate of the standards and language therein rather than simply citing it as reference.

For texas for example:
Sec. 547.3215. USE OF FEDERAL STANDARD. Unless specifically prohibited by this chapter, lighting, reflective devices, and associated equipment on a vehicle or motor vehicle must comply with:
(1) the current federal standards in 49 C.F.R. Section 571.108; or
(2) the federal standards in that section in effect, if any, at the time the vehicle or motor vehicle was manufactured.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 324, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

Some of our exceptions in texas are aiming of foglights (at least 4 inches lower at 25 feet) and wider range of permissible heights for various lights.


Similar language in California, their major exception being they have a state blanket exception for white turn signals left over from the early 60s (ie italian imports had them), IIRC.


Thus a violation of fmvss becomes a state violation and citable by city and state police.
 
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Zed 71

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Food for thought. Below is a picture showing halogen on the driver side and HID on the other. Not my picture and this is on an nbs.

I installed HIDs in my nnbs and I did get flashed. I adjusted by having my sports car in front and then having my wife drive behind me to check it out. Now I do not get flashed.
 

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WHITEOUT

WHITEOUT

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EAGLE- nice job with the codes and bringing the fact!! If you do look it up, halogens got massive complaints from drivers compared to sealed beams. And the government pretty much wrote it off as people not being adjusted to the new light, and being a different color/look, then they were used to. Again, now with HID's, they are pretty much saying the same thing but also alittle more!!! Age is taken in account for this along with other factors.

See the following NHTSA Interp letter at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/interps/files/21118.ztv.html-It says, "SAE J578c defines white by blue, yellow, green, red and purple boundaries within a chromaticity diagram. Thus, it is possible to design a headlamp that emits a light that approaches the blue boundary and is perceived as having a blue tint but which nevertheless remains within the boundaries that define "white"". Was taken off a police forum from a cop.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/NRD/Multimedia/PDFs/Crash Avoidance/2008/811006.pdf- another article written by NHTSA regarding headlights and HID lighting along with glare.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/NRD/Multimedia/PDFs/Crash Avoidance/2008/811071.pdf

Regarding glare:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfile...Avoidance/2007/Glare_Congressional_Report.pdf
 
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Narco

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no, i was correct. i said IF the state adopts the fed code then it can be enforced. if the state has no language prohibiting it in thier laws it can not be enforced on the state level.
 

Eagle

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and again, that is incorrect.

Please tell me which US states have laws which specifically make it LEGAL to use HID bulbs in a non OEM application?
A: none.

Which ones have laws that state that law enforcement can not enforce the law?
A: none

Local cops CAN (and indeed, must) ENFORCE FEDERAL LAW.

Bank robbery is a federal crime. You can be arrested by local cops for it. You can be arrested for being in the US illegally by a state trooper. You can be arrested for drug possession by a constable. I can arrest you for mail fraud or any other crime of any type, and I'm not even a LEO.

You are confusing the Judicial with the executive. Most people do. Federal law is supreme. State authority is delegated to the states by the federal government, not the other way around (since 1787) Therefore all state officials are bound to enforce federal law.


You can not be TRIED in a local court for a federal offense...
In no way does that prevent you from being arrested by a local authority, who can then turn you over to a federal official if he can't simply cite you directly or vaguely enough under state law.
Have you ever seen the inability to cite a specific infraction of a regulation stop a cop from writing a ticket? A ticket is not the punishment for infraction.

That only means local cops can't issue a TICKET ( which is actually no more than a summons to appear in court, not an actual fine or penalty) under a federal law... because they lack the authority to summons you to appear in US District Court. they would have no choice but to arrest you on the spot :)

They are free to arrest you at any time until a federal authority can come to issue said summons. They can also detain you for 48 hours without cause. Refusing a citation is cause for arrest. Refusing to comply with the lawful direction of an officer is cause for arrest. If you are arrested/detained, your vehicle will be towed and impounded, and you will have to pay the charges for that service, even if the ticket or charges against you are later dropped. That enforces the federal law pretty damn well, even if you never go to federal court.

Besides, at the very least, failure to maintain vehicle would be valid in all 50 states, including Peachtree central.
You would have to prove your headlights have passed the DOT SAE tests with the bulb design you are running, to defeat a ticket. Even toyota cant do that consistently... all new Celicas have illegal headlights. they can't pass the tests until after weathering. LOL!


IN your state, failure to abide by FMVSS108 can be cited very simply as a violation of


*** Current through the 2009 Regular Session ***

TITLE 40. MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
CHAPTER 8. EQUIPMENT AND INSPECTION OF MOTOR VEHICLES
ARTICLE 1. EQUIPMENT GENERALLY
PART 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS

O.C.G.A. ß 40-8-7 (2009)

ß 40-8-7. Driving unsafe or improperly equipped vehicle; punishment for violations of chapter generally; vehicle inspection by law enforcement officer without warrant

(a) No person shall drive or move on any highway any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer, or any combination thereof, unless the equipment upon any and every such vehicle is in good working order and adjustment as required in this chapter and the vehicle is in such safe mechanical condition as not to endanger the driver or other occupant or any person upon the highway.

(b) It is a misdemeanor for any person to drive or move, or for the owner to cause or knowingly permit to be driven or moved, on any street or highway any vehicle or combination of vehicles:

(1) Which is in such unsafe condition as to endanger any person;

(2) Which does not contain those parts or is not at all times equipped with such lights and other equipment in proper condition and adjustment as required in this chapter; or

(3) Which is equipped in any manner in violation of this chapter.

(c) It is also a misdemeanor for any person to do any act forbidden or fail to perform any act required under this chapter.

(d) Any vehicle suspected of being operated in violation of this article may be the subject of an inspection conducted by any law enforcement officer who has reason to believe such violation is occurring, without the necessity of obtaining a warrant to permit such inspection.




notice that you don;t ahve to specify exactly what is wrong, merely that something was wrong.

40-8-30. Standards for multiple-beam road lighting equipment

Except as hereinafter provided in this part, the headlights or the auxiliary driving light or the auxiliary passing light or combination thereof on motor vehicles other than motorcycles or motor driven cycles shall be so arranged that the driver may select at will between distributions of light projected to different elevations, and such lights may, in addition, be so arranged that such selection can be made automatically, subject to the following limitations:

(1) There shall be an uppermost distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed and of such intensity as to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least 350 feet ahead for all conditions of loading;

(2) There shall be a lowermost distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least 100 feet ahead; and on a straight level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver;

(3) Every new motor vehicle other than a motorcycle or a motor driven cycle registered in this state which has multiple-beam road lighting equipment shall be equipped with a beam indicator which shall be lighted whenever the uppermost distribution of light from the headlights is in use and shall not otherwise be lighted. Such indicator shall be so designed and located that when lighted it will be readily visible without glare to the driver of the vehicle so equipped.

40-8-31. Use of multiple-beam road lighting equipment

Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated on a roadway or shoulder adjacent thereto during the times specified in Code Section 40-8-20, the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to the following requirements and limitations:

(1) Whenever a driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, such driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver. The lowermost distribution of light, or composite beam, specified in paragraph (2) of Code Section 40-8-30 shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times, regardless of road contour and loading; and

(2) Whenever the driver of a vehicle follows another vehicle within 200 feet to the rear, except when engaged in the act of overtaking and passing, such driver shall use a distribution of light permissible under this chapter other than the uppermost distribution of light specified in paragraph (1) of Code Section 40-8-30.

40-8-34. Color in lighting equipment

The color in all lighting equipment covered in this title shall be in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Standard J578, April, 1965, as thereafter revised or amended.


As you can see under these state regulations, even in georgia, which is one of the most lax, you can still be cited for an HID kit in various ways, or multiple concurrent infractions. Mandatory DOT hotspots guarantee it would fail 4.8.30.(2). You have no means of contesting said citation via proof of legality since federal law prohibits them.

Lack of local enforcement still doesn;t change the fact that they are illegal under federal law, and thus are illegal in all 50 states.
Peiod.

If you get cited, pay the fine, go on about your business.

---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

BTW: i suggest a new title for this thread...

"continuing discussion on HID retro illegality"

or simply

"Yes, HIDs are illegal, dumbass: how to avoid tickets"
 
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