Expedition vs Yukon

[firsttimetahoe]

Then there's something wrong with that particular Jeep dealer. Or maybe the NY metro area market is not representative of the rest of the US.

What is exactly wrong with that dealer?

 

[todayusay]

The Koon's around the country won't have inventory simply because they are discounting every vehicle they sell thousands more than anyone probably within a 300-400 radius...off the cuff there are at least 8-10 of these types of FCA dealerships across the country

FCA may be able to move some the wagoneers but I have had similar experiences in that if I wanted to find a Wagoneer today, it may not be exactly what I want but I could be driving one by this evening if I wanted to...Can't really say the same for a tahoe/yukon

Local(ish) dealer to me was doing the whole end of the month advertising a couple weeks of ago on the radio and they said they had a Wagoneer for $2k off - that day only...ha. Almost 3 weeks later they still have it on their website with the discounted price.

The real test will be to check back in on this topic in June and see what the inventory at the dealers looks like then






I stopped and looked at one at a rural dealership about a month ago, think it was $74K?, 2WD ...was one of about 5 new vehicles on their lot...and although the interior seemed nice, in person it looked like the big brother to a Ford Flex...

 

[firsttimetahoe]

The Koon's around the country won't have inventory simply because they are discounting every vehicle they sell thousands more than anyone probably within a 300-400 radius...off the cuff there are at least 8-10 of these types of FCA dealerships across the country

FCA may be able to move some the wagoneers but I have had similar experiences in that if I wanted to find a Wagoneer today, it may not be exactly what I want but I could be driving one by this evening if I wanted to...Can't really say the same for a tahoe/yukon

Local(ish) dealer to me was doing the whole end of the month advertising a couple weeks of ago on the radio and they said they had a Wagoneer for $2k off - that day only...ha. Almost 3 weeks later they still have it on their website with the discounted price.

The real test will be to check back in on this topic in June and see what the inventory at the dealers looks like then


View attachment 368288



I stopped and looked at one at a rural dealership about a month ago, think it was $74K?, 2WD ...was one of about 5 new vehicles on their lot...and although the interior seemed nice, in person it looked like the big brother to a Ford Flex...

Imagine having to discount your BRAND NEW lineup on day 1 to sell cars, in order to compete with a company who's selling their comparable car hand over fist over MSRP and making consumers wait months for delivery?

GM doesn't even sell that many ESVs. Nor do they sell that many Suburban's or Yukon XL versus Tahoe and regular Yukon. So what is Jeep's next decision, lets make the cars even bigger? Yeah, because as if a Tahoe or Yukon isn't enough room lol.

Again...i'll walk back everything and apologize if the Grand Wagoneer catches on and just destroys it in sales. But its not happening.

 

[Polo08816]

The Koon's around the country won't have inventory simply because they are discounting every vehicle they sell thousands more than anyone probably within a 300-400 radius...off the cuff there are at least 8-10 of these types of FCA dealerships across the country

FCA may be able to move some the wagoneers but I have had similar experiences in that if I wanted to find a Wagoneer today, it may not be exactly what I want but I could be driving one by this evening if I wanted to...Can't really say the same for a tahoe/yukon

Local(ish) dealer to me was doing the whole end of the month advertising a couple weeks of ago on the radio and they said they had a Wagoneer for $2k off - that day only...ha. Almost 3 weeks later they still have it on their website with the discounted price.

The real test will be to check back in on this topic in June and see what the inventory at the dealers looks like then


View attachment 368288



I stopped and looked at one at a rural dealership about a month ago, think it was $74K?, 2WD ...was one of about 5 new vehicles on their lot...and although the interior seemed nice, in person it looked like the big brother to a Ford Flex...

I've started to see more and more Wagoneers/Grand Wagoneers in the DC metro area as well as Toyota Tundras.

Imagine having to discount your BRAND NEW lineup on day 1 to sell cars, in order to compete with a company who's selling their comparable car hand over fist over MSRP and making consumers wait months for delivery?

GM doesn't even sell that many ESVs. Nor do they sell that many Suburban's or Yukon XL versus Tahoe and regular Yukon. So what is Jeep's next decision, lets make the cars even bigger? Yeah, because as if a Tahoe or Yukon isn't enough room lol.

Again...i'll walk back everything and apologize if the Grand Wagoneer catches on and just destroys it in sales. But its not happening.

At the end of the day, profit would be reflected closer to market selling price minus cost to produce per unit. Since I see Stellantis vehicles selling at a greater discount compared to GM vehicles, suspect that the holdback amount per vehicle for the dealer is higher than GM.

It's about a 1 to 2 split between Suburbans and Tahoes.

But Tahoes/Yukons can be cross-shopped with European and Asian manufacturers alternatives. Suburbans/Yukon XLs cannot. And the only manufacturer that is really in a position to add to the segment is Toyota if they decide to use the TNGA-F platform for the Tundra/Sequoia to make an extended wheel base Sequoia. If GM, Ford, and Stellantis leave something on the table for market capture, then maybe Toyota will take advantage of that. I think that would be 2024 at the earliest if it happens.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

At the end of the day, profit would be reflected closer to market selling price minus cost to produce per unit.

Profit for who? Don’t Manufacturers sell to dealers at the Invoice Price, which obviously is more than what it costs them to produce the car? Isn't there profit already booked once they sell the cars to the dealer? At that point, it’s irrelevant to the manufacturer what a dealer prices the car at - they just need them fo keep buying cars.

Dealers make profit selling a car (excluding what they make in financing, warranty’s, etc) by selling above invoice, which is what they buy the car from the manufacturer at. MSRP is above invoice. They’re recommended to sell at MSRP. But whatever markup or discount they apply is irrelevant to the profit of the manufacturer.

Or that’s at least what I thought the process was like.

 

[Polo08816]

Profit for who? Don’t Manufacturers sell to dealers at the Invoice Price, which obviously is more than what it costs them to produce the car? Isn't there profit already booked once they sell the cars to the dealer? At that point, it’s irrelevant to the manufacturer what a dealer prices the car at - they just need them fo keep buying cars.

Dealers make profit selling a car (excluding what they make in financing, warranty’s, etc) by selling above invoice, which is what they buy the car from the manufacturer at. MSRP is above invoice. They’re recommended to sell at MSRP. But whatever markup or discount they apply is irrelevant to the profit of the manufacturer.

Or that’s at least what I thought the process was like.

So there's a holdback amount which is usually dependent on the sales volume of the dealer.

The holdback amount is probably why a dealer like Koons Vienna can advertise at 6% under invoice and still make a profit on each unit sold.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

So there's a holdback amount which is usually dependent on the sales volume of the dealer.

The holdback amount is probably why a dealer like Koons Vienna can advertise at 6% under invoice and still make a profit on each unit sold.

Dealers make the majority of their money selling cars on securing financing and selling extended warranties/service contracts and other add-ons. And then obviously they make a ton from repairs dept.

Their profits don’t come from selling the actual car in terms of what they pay minus what they sell it for. If that was the case, they’d be out of business selling below invoice

 

[Polo08816]

Dealers make the majority of their money selling cars on securing financing and selling extended warranties/service contracts and other add-ons. And then obviously they make a ton from repairs dept.

Their profits don’t come from selling the actual car in terms of what they pay minus what they sell it for. If that was the case, they’d be out of business selling below invoice

That further proves my point. They don't make a practice of selling vehicles at a loss.

 

[firsttimetahoe]

That further proves my point. They don't make a practice of selling vehicles at a loss.

Prove you point how?

I’m genuinely confused.

In a time where car dealers are adding to MSRP to reap the high demand and low inventory environment …Jeep dealers already have to sell a brand new lineup of luxury vehicles below MSRP to get these off their lots. Why are people willing to pay more for a Tahoe/Yukon and Escalade but less for a Wagoneer?

Dealers will focus on selling cars and getting an inventory that they can profit from the most. Most dealers aren’t going to stock their lot full of cars they have to discount more than any other model, if they can sell other models more easily and clearer to MSRP in normal times. Eventually they’ll have a price point where it no longer makes sense for them to sell these cars. Unless you tell me that a dealer still makes a profit selling a Grand Wagonneer for $75k….then I don’t see them selling them in volumes you project

 

[Polo08816]

Prove you point how?

I’m genuinely confused.

In a time where car dealers are adding to MSRP to reap the high demand and low inventory environment …Jeep dealers already have to sell a brand new lineup of luxury vehicles below MSRP to get these off their lots. Why are people willing to pay more for a Tahoe/Yukon and Escalade but less for a Wagoneer?

Dealers will focus on selling cars and getting an inventory that they can profit from the most. Most dealers aren’t going to stock their lot full of cars they have to discount more than any other model, if they can sell other models more easily and clearer to MSRP in normal times. Eventually they’ll have a price point where it no longer makes sense for them to sell these cars. Unless you tell me that a dealer still makes a profit selling a Grand Wagonneer for $75k….then I don’t see them selling them in volumes you project

Stellantis isn't the only one with that strategy. Ford does it as well. There are quite a few forum dealers that will do anywhere from 2-5% below invoice pricing for Fords. Like Stellantis, Ford prices their vehicles with a higher MSRP. The actual market selling price is about equal to comparable GM products.

Manufacturers usually change their holdback to make sure dealers make some profit and/or provide incentives to the retail customer.