Bad mpg?

[Antonm]

You can not discount the effect of acoustic design on the different induction systems.

It will alter pressure at bottom dead center.

Which negates your Boyle's law concept.

So, are you now refuting the very equations you posted and saying they're wrong now?

If the air wasn't getting in the cylinder (for whatever reason) , we'd know that because we directly measure the O2 concentration of the exhaust ( remember the whole thing that started this, the O2 sensor discussion when you tired trolling on Marky Dissod but ended up just showing how little you actually know about the topic), we also measure the mass flowrate of air engine the engine via the mass airflow meter , then confirm what going on in the manifold via the manifold absolute pressure sensor. And we've been doing this on production cars for the last 30 years, so not exactly new tech.

So we know, for certain, how much air is going in.
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[blanchard7684]

So, are you now refuting the very equations you posted and saying they're wrong now?

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Going down this path of pressure at bottom dead center, I originally indicated that this pressure would be close to the same (not enough to overcome displacement).

Therefore there is no contradiction of the equation.

 

[Antonm]

Then everytime displacement increases, power drops, at a given afr, given engine speed, given throttle position.

Is this what you want to stick with as conclusion?

Because it is contradictory to all known reality.

lol, you can't be this dumb can you?

Yes , every single time a given quantity of air (like say the quantity needed to burn a given amount of fuel at stochiometric ratio) is trapped in a cylinder, if the size of that cylinder is increased in volume, the pressure in that now larger cylinder will go down, and it will do that every single time in a repeatable, measurable, and predictable fashion.

That's exactly what p1*v1=p2*v2 states actually.

So are you now renaming "Boyles law" to "Boyles suggestion that somehow doesn't apply when blanchard 7684 doesn't want it to" ? If you are, maybe makeup an acronym for it, as that's to long to write out very time.
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[blanchard7684]

lol, you can't be this dumb can you?

Yes , every single time a given quantity of air (like say the quantity needed to burn a given amount of fuel at stochiometric ratio) is trapped in a cylinder, if the size of that cylinder is increased in volume, the pressure in that now larger cylinder will go down, and it will do that every single time in a repeatable, measurable, and predictable fashion.

That's exactly what p1*v1=p2*v2 states actually.

So are you now renaming "Boyles law" to "Boyles suggestion that somehow doesn't apply when blanchard 7684 doesn't want it to" ? If you are, maybe makeup an acronym for it, as that's to long to write out very time.
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So displacement cuts power.

got it.

AntonM: The only replacement for displacement, is less displacement.

Also AntonM: Boyle's law says I should decrease displacement to increase power.

 

[Antonm]

Going down this path of pressure at bottom dead center, I originally indicated that this pressure would be close to the same (not enough to overcome displacement).

Therefore there is no contradiction of the equation.

LOL, your own equations show that can't be true, if pressure at bottom dead center stayed the same , power and fuel flow would change.

Basic math, if you change the value of one term in an equation, then the the value of the solution changes. In this power and fuel consumption would change if only volume at bottom dead center changed (see arrow analysis of your equations above).
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[blanchard7684]

LOL, your own equations show that can't be true, if pressure at bottom dead center stayed the same , power and fuel flow would change.

Basic math, if you change the value of one term in an equation, then the the value of the solution changes. In this power and fuel consumption would change if only volume at bottom dead center changed (see arrow analysis of your equations above).
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No I got ya...to increase cylinder pressure, to increase power, or maintain power, you must reduce displacement.

I'll be sure to try this on my next project car.

I'm sure it will work great.

 

[Antonm]

So displacement cuts power.

got it.

AntonM: The only replacement for displacement, is less displacement.

Also AntonM: Boyle's law says I should decrease displacement to increase power.

I posted this explanation above , apparently you didn't read it (or are to stupid to understand it, right now I'm leaning toward the latter but lets continue anyway, maybe there's hope yet).

So I'll do it again for you here,,,now pay attention this time

If you Increase displacement, but want to maintain the same part throttle cruising power output, then pressure at bottom dead center will go down (because you trapped the same volume of air in lager cylinder and Boyles suggestion say so).

Lets see that in your own equations;





Now, lets see what happens if you take in more air in that larger cylinder, (because taking in more air in that larger cylinder is THE ONLY WAY pressure at bottom dead cylinder could remain the same).



Oh look, power goes up (we don't want power to go up because they we be accelerating vice maintaining our cruising speed but ahhh its going up).

Wonder why power went up;

Oh, its because fuel flow went up, that's why power is going up.

Now repeat with me,,,,
-power comes from the fuel
-to burn that fuel we need air.
-to make the same power in two engine with the same efficiencies, we have to burn the same amount of fuel.
-to burn the same amount of fuel at the same afr, we need the same mass of air.
-Boyles law is a law and not a suggestion, so if we trap the same mass of air in two different size cylinders the pressures will be different in those cylinders, even though both cylinders contain the same amount of air.

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[blanchard7684]

I posted this explanation above , apparently you didn't read it (or are to stupid to understand it, right now I'm leaning toward the latter but lets continue anyway, maybe there's hope yet).

So I'll do it again for you here,,,now pay attention this time

If you Increase displacement, but want to maintain the same part throttle cruising power output, then pressure at bottom dead center will go down (because you trapped the same volume of air in lager cylinder and Boyles suggestion say so).

Lets see that in your own equations;

View attachment 447955



Now, lets see what happens if you take in more air in that larger cylinder, (because taking in more air in that larger cylinder is THE ONLY WAY pressure at bottom dead cylinder could remain the same).

View attachment 447957

Oh look, power goes up (we don't want power to go up because they we be accelerating vice maintaining our cruising speed but ahhh its going up).

Wonder why power went up;
View attachment 447958
Oh, its because fuel flow went up, that's why power is going up.

Now repeat with me,,,,
-power comes from the fuel
-to burn that fuel we need air.
-to make the same power in two engine with the same efficiencies, we have to burn the same amount of fuel.
-to burn the same amount of fuel at the same afr, we need the same mass of air.
-Boyles law is a law and not a suggestion, so if we trap the same mass of air in two different size cylinders the pressures will be different in those cylinders, even though both cylinders contain the same amount of air.

....

Less displacement increases pressure at BDC, so power goes up...because Boyle's law says so.

I got it

Don't worry. I'm already shopping for a smaller displacement platform.

Comedian is your future calling.

 

[Antonm]

No I got ya...to increase cylinder pressure, to increase power, or maintain power, you must reduce displacement.

I'll be sure to try this on my next project car.

I'm sure it will work great.

Now you're trying to hopeless spin crap because you know you've been proven wrong, (several times so far) and are tying yet again to grasp at straws by taking things out of context.

Look again and see if I said anything even remotely like that stupid statement of yours above ,,, please quote that.
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[Antonm]

Less displacement increases pressure at BDC, so power goes up...because Boyle's law says so.

I got it

Don't worry. I'm already shopping for a smaller displacement platform.

Comedian is your future calling.

Yet another thing you're pulling out of your dumb ***, please quote where I said anything even remotely like that.

Are you perhaps color blind and can't see the directional arrows I put on your own equations ,or are you just to stupid to understand them?

You apparently think you're smarter than Robert Boyle (the creator of Boyle's law) or think he and the entire scientific community for the last few hundred years have gotten in wrong, because in your mind you've disproven this law in a forum posting.
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