Chevrolet Suburban 3500 Questions

[Bigburb3500]

I remember Eric at Duraburb saying that those were not made to tow but to carry a lot of weight (armor). Give him a call and check out his youtube channel.

I watched his one video and dropped an email over to him, no response as yet. I not watch the one with the black truck but I did watch the other one and it seemed like they were built with all the right parts. 3500 brakes, coolers and drivetrain - the limiting factor I’ve found is the actual hitch receiver at this point as it’s only rated up to 10k lbs.

The part that had me most confused was when he talked about frames being “the same” as the previous gen 2500. I think we talked about it earlier in this thread a little, and I thought (key word) that there were slight differences in a Silverado 2500 vs 3500 chassis. I was not able to confirm this and I do not believe anyone else weighed in heavily. So not sure if a 2500 chassis vs 3500 is different or if it’s the components that add up to a 3500 designation. Either way, these are beefy trucks and I think (in non-armored or upfit config) they can pull more than 3k lbs LOL.

 

[swathdiver]

I watched his one video and dropped an email over to him, no response as yet. I not watch the one with the black truck but I did watch the other one and it seemed like they were built with all the right parts. 3500 brakes, coolers and drivetrain - the limiting factor I’ve found is the actual hitch receiver at this point as it’s only rated up to 10k lbs.

The part that had me most confused was when he talked about frames being “the same” as the previous gen 2500. I think we talked about it earlier in this thread a little, and I thought (key word) that there were slight differences in a Silverado 2500 vs 3500 chassis. I was not able to confirm this and I do not believe anyone else weighed in heavily. So not sure if a 2500 chassis vs 3500 is different or if it’s the components that add up to a 3500 designation. Either way, these are beefy trucks and I think (in non-armored or upfit config) they can pull more than 3k lbs LOL.

The chassis are essentially the same between the 2500 and 3500 trucks, it's the springs that provide the additional capacity. They even share the same axles.

The 2007-2013 2500s retained the original chassis when GM updated the HD chassis in 2011. So does that mean your K2 retained the pre-2011 features too? I do not know but the spacing of the lug nuts would be a giveaway. 8 x 6.5 inches or 8 x 180mm

Your hitch sounds like the same one in my pickups. If Eric doesn't respond by email, give him a call. I've chatted with him through Facebook before.

 

[strutaeng]

I would say that the biggest limiting factor on the SUVs when towing to the upper bound on towing capacity is the shorter wheelbase over a truck. As the wheelbase gets shorter, stability and sway increase, especially if the trailer has a larger area to catch wind.

A long wheelbase, long bed truck (CCLB) is probably the most stable out there, DRW, probably best. Location the trailer pin over the axle like a gooseneck/5th wheel, even better. Loading the trailer pin behind the axle as in a bumper pull, causes sideways later force to want the front wheels go in opposite direction; the further the wheelbase, the less force is seen by the front wheels. Unfortunately, can't do that with an SUV/van.

I really wish they would have added at least another 6" to the wheelbase (maybe only to the 2500 SUVs?).

 

[Bigburb3500]

I would say that the biggest limiting factor on the SUVs when towing to the upper bound on towing capacity is the shorter wheelbase over a truck. As the wheelbase gets shorter, stability and sway increase, especially if the trailer has a larger area to catch wind.

A long wheelbase, long bed truck (CCLB) is probably the most stable out there, DRW, probably best. Location the trailer pin over the axle like a gooseneck/5th wheel, even better. Loading the trailer pin behind the axle as in a bumper pull, causes sideways later force to want the front wheels go in opposite direction; the further the wheelbase, the less force is seen by the front wheels. Unfortunately, can't do that with an SUV/van.

I really wish they would have added at least another 6" to the wheelbase (maybe only to the 2500 SUVs?).

Would that not have been a crazy vehicle?? An HD Suburban long wheelbase?!? That would have looked like a stretched limo going down the road.

I believe the Suburban has the same wheelbase as a CC 6.5ft bed HD truck if memory serves correctly. I wonder how difficult adding a dually axel to my 3500 would be… the next question is if my better half would approve?

 

[swathdiver]

An HD CC with 6.5 bed has a wheel base of at least 152 inches depending on the generation.

Bill on here tows all over the US with a 2500 Suburban and has probably forgotten more about towing and 2500s than I'll ever know. @intheburbs

 

[strutaeng]

Would that not have been a crazy vehicle?? An HD Suburban long wheelbase?!? That would have looked like a stretched limo going down the road.

I believe the Suburban has the same wheelbase as a CC 6.5ft bed HD truck if memory serves correctly. I wonder how difficult adding a dually axel to my 3500 would be… the next question is if my better half would approve?

I'm pretty sure the Suburban wheelbase is shorter of those two: if you look at the rear wheel of the Suburban, it's right behind the rear door, whereas the truck will have it closer to the center of the bed.

I have seen some Jerry Rigged old Suburbans with a dually conversion. But again, the wheel hump interferes with the rear door. Folks have just added the dually fiberglass wheel flares and it looks funny. A longer wheelbase would solve that issue.

Speaking of which, my buddy has mentioned that there's a company in Oklahoma that apparently takes Excursion bodies and swaps them into newer F250 diesel drivetrains. He jokes that I should buy one of those for hauling my kids (we have a lot of kids.) The "only" problem is the conversion costs like $60k or something like that.

Edit: I think this must be the place: http://www.customautosbytim.com/

 

[Bigburb3500]

View attachment 431636

An HD CC with 6.5 bed has a wheel base of at least 152 inches depending on the generation.

Bill on here tows all over the US with a 2500 Suburban and has probably forgotten more about towing and 2500s than I'll ever know. @intheburbs

I like this way more than I should… I was warned getting on the internet would corrupt my mind and morals…

 

[Bigburb3500]

I'm pretty sure the Suburban wheelbase is shorter of those two: if you look at the rear wheel of the Suburban, it's right behind the rear door, whereas the truck will have it closer to the center of the bed.

I have seen some Jerry Rigged old Suburbans with a dually conversion. But again, the wheel hump interferes with the rear door. Folks have just added the dually fiberglass wheel flares and it looks funny. A longer wheelbase would solve that issue.

Speaking of which, my buddy has mentioned that there's a company in Oklahoma that apparently takes Excursion bodies and swaps them into newer F250 diesel drivetrains. He jokes that I should buy one of those for hauling my kids (we have a lot of kids.) The "only" problem is the conversion costs like $60k or something like that.

Edit: I think this must be the place: http://www.customautosbytim.com/

I just pulled specs:
Silverado 3500 CC 6.5ft bed wheelbase:153
Suburban 3500 wheelbase: 130

We “stumbled” into this Suburban as we have a giant dog, kid, and family that flies in to visit regularly. I have been designated a chauffeur and needed a complimentary vehicle to my duties. I also like HD trucks and a pickup was out of the pictures as we need the 3rd row. This fell in my lap and was impossible to pass up!

I love the old Excursions but they lack refinement that newer trucks have… if only Ford and GM would bring back the HD SUVs.

 

[intheburbs]

View attachment 431636

An HD CC with 6.5 bed has a wheel base of at least 152 inches depending on the generation.

Bill on here tows all over the US with a 2500 Suburban and has probably forgotten more about towing and 2500s than I'll ever know. @intheburbs

Since I was paged...

I've done a ton of research on the 3500HD Suburban. If the right one comes along, I may very well buy it.

Here's my current rig...8600-lb trailer, fully loaded with family and gear I'm just over my 16,000 GCWR, right at my max GVWR (8600), and right at my max RAWR (5500). No WD, no sway control, rig is dead-nuts stable, even driving on interstates in Wyoming. We've dragged it over Loveland Pass (11,990'), Powder River Pass (9,666'), and through the Eisenhower Tunnel (11,100', aka the Ike Gauntlet).

Weigh slips - with trailer and without trailer:

Another comment was made about towing at 70% or 80% of your max rating as a "safety margin." Well, ok, but if you really know your equipment, you know which rules can be bent or broken. For example, my RAWR is 5,500 lbs. The RAWR of the 3500HD is 6,200 lbs. They both have "E" tires, and they both have the same AAM 1050 14-bolt rear. Why the difference? Some GM pickups are rated at 6,000 lbs with the same setup. All I know is, my tires have a load-carrying limit of 3,042 lbs., or 6,084 total. AAM rates the axle itself to 8,600 lbs. So is it really dangerous to load my rear axle all the way to 5500 lbs? Do I have a "safety margin?"

As was mentioned previously, the 3500HD was such a low-volume production run for GM, they didn't bother paying for the towing certification test, so the tow rating reverts to the default rating for this vehicle class, which is 3,000 lbs.

Doing the math based on the door stickers of the one vehicle I inspected/test drove, subtracting the payload rating (4,267) from the GVWR of 11,000 lbs yields a curb weight of 6,723. Do that for my 2500: 8600-2088=6512. So the 3500HD is only 200 lbs heavier than my 2500. That would lead me to believe the frames are very similar, if not identical.

The 3500HD basically has the same running gear as the older GMT900 2500 trucks with one big exception - it has 4.10 gears instead of 3.73. And, of course, bigger/better brakes. Now, if you look at the tow ratings of the GMT800 2500s, the last trucks to have two axle ratio options, the big-blocked SUV with 3.73 is rated to 10,000 lbs, and the 4.10 is rated to 12,000 lbs. So the 4.10s add 2,000 lbs of tow rating. Now add the bigger brakes, and you have a vehicle that I would feel comfortable pulling 13,000 to 15,000 lbs.

If I bought a 3500HD, and I planned to tow that much, I would certainly upgrade the receiver to a class V to create something completely bomb-proof. I'd also probably switch at least the rear suspension to airbags. I'm very spoiled by the half-ton ride of my 2500. I'm currently driving my company's F250 work truck while my company car is in the shop. I have no desire to live with such a horrible ride in what is primarily a family vacation hauler.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Since I was paged...

I've done a ton of research on the 3500HD Suburban. If the right one comes along, I may very well buy it.

Here's my current rig...8600-lb trailer, fully loaded with family and gear I'm just over my 16,000 GCWR, right at my max GVWR (8600), and right at my max RAWR (5500). No WD, no sway control, rig is dead-nuts stable, even driving on interstates in Wyoming. We've dragged it over Loveland Pass (11,990'), Powder River Pass (9,666'), and through the Eisenhower Tunnel (11,100', aka the Ike Gauntlet).

Weigh slips - with trailer and without trailer:

Another comment was made about towing at 70% or 80% of your max rating as a "safety margin." Well, ok, but if you really know your equipment, you know which rules can be bent or broken. For example, my RAWR is 5,500 lbs. The RAWR of the 3500HD is 6,200 lbs. They both have "E" tires, and they both have the same AAM 1050 14-bolt rear. Why the difference? Some GM pickups are rated at 6,000 lbs with the same setup. All I know is, my tires have a load-carrying limit of 3,042 lbs., or 6,084 total. AAM rates the axle itself to 8,600 lbs. So is it really dangerous to load my rear axle all the way to 5500 lbs? Do I have a "safety margin?"

As was mentioned previously, the 3500HD was such a low-volume production run for GM, they didn't bother paying for the towing certification test, so the tow rating reverts to the default rating for this vehicle class, which is 3,000 lbs.

Doing the math based on the door stickers of the one vehicle I inspected/test drove, subtracting the payload rating (4,267) from the GVWR of 11,000 lbs yields a curb weight of 6,723. Do that for my 2500: 8600-2088=6512. So the 3500HD is only 200 lbs heavier than my 2500. That would lead me to believe the frames are very similar, if not identical.

The 3500HD basically has the same running gear as the older GMT900 2500 trucks with one big exception - it has 4.10 gears instead of 3.73. And, of course, bigger/better brakes. Now, if you look at the tow ratings of the GMT800 2500s, the last trucks to have two axle ratio options, the big-blocked SUV with 3.73 is rated to 10,000 lbs, and the 4.10 is rated to 12,000 lbs. So the 4.10s add 2,000 lbs of tow rating. Now add the bigger brakes, and you have a vehicle that I would feel comfortable pulling 13,000 to 15,000 lbs.

If I bought a 3500HD, and I planned to tow that much, I would certainly upgrade the receiver to a class V to create something completely bomb-proof. I'd also probably switch at least the rear suspension to airbags. I'm very spoiled by the half-ton ride of my 2500. I'm currently driving my company's F250 work truck while my company car is in the shop. I have no desire to live with such a horrible ride in what is primarily a family vacation hauler.

You good sir, have summed up in one post what others did in 7 pages worth of posts! Thank you for your input! I actually saw your rig setup on another thread and was impressed.
I will saw the ride is not THAT bad, GM knows how to make a good cushy seat… if only it had the ventilation option…

Once I decide to pull the trigger on a big boat then the class V receiver will be added. The airbags are a component I was thinking will be necessary/useful too. Do you find your truck is over worked going up those steep grades or do you just settle into a comfortable speed and do your thing?