Growing up doesn't have to suck

[iamdub]

ive always heard to do a write entire when you first unlock an ecm. there's thousands of tables beyond what hptuners can change. the idea is to write the entire ecm tune as its interpreted by hptuners. that way when you make changes in hptuners everything you "cannot see" plays nicely. ie if spark in xyz scenario effects table 23432423523.01, if hptuners interprets that table as 23432423523.1 it will cause problems

I did write entire the first couple of times I made changes, but then noticed I had the option to not write and figured there was no need to keep flashing something with no changes. Did I do this correctly or should I just write entire every time? FWIW, the only changes I made were the tire circumference and setting all EVAP errors to non-reporting.

 

[randeez]

Heeyago:

View attachment 271798


Is that abrupt jump in numbers at 1,600 RPM normal?

usually done if theres issues with it returning to idle, on coast down or something... cam related usually.
theres an entire table for idle spark and the transition between the tables sometimes causes problems. that 24 prob matches whats in the idle timing table

 

[randeez]

I did write entire the first couple of times I made changes, but then noticed I had the option to not write and figured there was no need to keep flashing something with no changes. Did I do this correctly or should I just write entire every time? FWIW, the only changes I made were the tire circumference and setting all EVAP errors to non-reporting.

nope youre good after the first time usually

or if a write cal fails in the middle of writing, go back and write entire

 

[iamdub]

lol, spark airmass is used because you can be doing 6000rpm in neutral with no load, or you can be doing 6000rpm in 4th going 150mph, the load is drastically different. its the value given for the time it takes for the fuel to ignite or someshit. just log it and use it for reference when your making changes

Roger that.

 

[iamdub]

What's your cr? I know you went for max quench to avoid kr. might be able to squeeze some more timing out of it.


the 24* around idle is supposed to help with stalling, idk anything about converters but maybe yours flashes right there and can take more timing or something. That low airmass high timing is kinda odd-looking to me but idk anything about gen 4 or autos lol.

I'd like to know what I'm looking at to know just how conservative it is. I told the tuner he didn't have to be shy with the timing since I only run good gas and upped the quench for this purpose. After a couple of hits with him slowly adding timing, among other adjustments, he seemed slightly surprised when he felt that he could add even more. Maybe I had better quality gas than what he was expecting or maybe upping the quench made that much a difference or both.

As for timing at idle in P or N, he set it to lope as much as feasible, per my request. Does that explain anything? My converter is a 2,600-2,800 but he said it seemed to be flashing to 3,000.

 

[iamdub]

nope youre good after the first time usually

or if a write cal fails in the middle of writing, go back and write entire

Tracking.
That's why I have a baseline saved in multiple media forms in multiple places and why I'm keeping a journal. I know there's places to leave notes on the files themselves, etc., but I'm a pen-and-paper guy. I like being able to write as much as I want up, down and sideways; draw arrows, underlines, hearts and stars and other doodles, etc.

 

[randeez]

As for timing at idle in P or N, he set it to lope as much as feasible, per my request. Does that explain anything? My converter is a 2,600-2,800 but he said it seemed to be flashing to 3,000.

probably, the loop is caused by making too much torque at idle (by adding timing) to the point where theres not enough air to continue to let the rpm rise, chokes, idle rpm falls back down. however what happens is, one the parameters to kick it off of the idle timing map to the high octane timing map is when it sees x-change in vacuum so much over y-amount of time. you set a target rpm error that the ecm will try and maintain.
the issues - if you have too much idle timing you dont get a "rpm bump", youll see people call it reserve timing sometimes, this is noticeable if you get bogging while putting it in gear, ac compressor engaging, turning full lock power steering strain, coming off idle. scenarios where you're idling but the engine needs a little more power.
theres plenty of paths to get to the end result. looking at just the main spark table doesnt tell the whole story

 

[iamdub]

probably, the loop is caused by making too much torque at idle (by adding timing) to the point where theres not enough air to continue to let the rpm rise, chokes, idle rpm falls back down. however what happens is, one the parameters to kick it off of the idle timing map to the high octane timing map is when it sees x-change in vacuum so much over y-amount of time. you set a target rpm error that the ecm will try and maintain.

I'm gonna have to read over this a few more times and imagine the dynamics in my mind. But, from what I'm understanding about the "not enough air" part, would mean a rich idle, yeah? Cuz mine be smelly! No cats makes it worse. So, if I had it tuned to be as smooth as possible, like stock at idle, then the raw fuel smell would be much less?

the issues - if you have too much idle timing you dont get a "rpm bump", youll see people call it reserve timing sometimes, this is noticeable if you get bogging while putting it in gear, ac compressor engaging, turning full lock power steering strain, coming off idle. scenarios where you're idling but the engine needs a little more power.
theres plenty of paths to get to the end result.

As far as issues from a sudden load at idle, I have none. The idle rises slightly and smooths out immediately when put in gear, when the A/C engages, etc. When idling with the A/C on, it smoothly transitions from loping to steady as the compressor cycles. So, I guess he has me set pretty good there.

looking at just the main spark table doesnt tell the whole story

I'm sure of this, I just didn't know which screenshots were pertinent to post up. Or, do you care to look at my tune?

I'm starting to feel like I'm at a dick doc's office, walking around with my pants down and asking all the docs and nurses if they wanna check out my ****** to tell me if they think it looks infected.

 

[randeez]

not necessarily.... the fueling will be controlled by the maf, whatever value it reads it fuels for. with the TPS is constant, if you advance or retard timing rpm will rise or fall. so you have an rpm window that the engine will run in for a given tps position.

basically if i have the tps open enough to supply 20lbs of air to the engine:
at 500rpm the engine gets plenty of air but has 2psi of vacuum and idles horrible.
at 1000rpm has great idle and 20psi of vacuum,
at 1500 rpm not enough air and chokes

problem being is gen4 ecm will try and target idle rpm by moving the throttle and spark at all together at once

the maf makes idle tuning 100x easier because youre not ALSO trying to fuel based on manifold pressure and rpm. with a cam you get reversion back into the cyclinders and the vacuum reading doesnt correlate to the correct fueling needed

 

[Dantheman1540]

I'm gonna have to read over this a few more times and imagine the dynamics in my mind. But, from what I'm understanding about the "not enough air" part, would mean a rich idle, yeah? Cuz mine be smelly! No cats makes it worse. So, if I had it tuned to be as smooth as possible, like stock at idle, then the raw fuel smell would be much less?




As far as issues from a sudden load at idle, I have none. The idle rises slightly and smooths out immediately when put in gear, when the A/C engages, etc. When idling with the A/C on, it smoothly transitions from loping to steady as the compressor cycles. So, I guess he has me set pretty good there.




I'm sure of this, I just didn't know which screenshots were pertinent to post up. Or, do you care to look at my tune?

I'm starting to feel like I'm at a dick doc's office, walking around with my pants down and asking all the docs and nurses if they wanna check out my ****** to tell me if they think it looks infected.

I wouldn't mind looking at the tune although I doubt I will be helpful I like building my personal tune repository to reference later on.

As for max spark being around 25* since we don't have a data log showing KR and showing actual spark* to review alongside with the targeted table its impossible to know if it could take more or less. On top of that, the only true way to tune spark is on a dyno and watch the torque curve.

But If it's showing 3*kr at 5800rpm it's safe to assume 25* is too much and you need to back it down 3* or more. Not saying you have any KR we just don't know given the current data. Also if you are showing not KR whatsoever across the board you could sprinkle a * or ** across the board and see what that does.